Podcast: Virginia Superintendent James Lane on Unleashing Innovation

We’re listening to the Getting Smart podcast. Where we unpack what is new and innovative in education. I’m your host Jessica and today we’re talking with Dr. James Lane, the Superintendent of Public Instruction at Virginia Department of Education. If you intended the Aurora Institute Symposium, that name might sound familiar, you actually

had the pleasure of hearing Dr. Lane speak at one of their keynotes. A little background before we get to the episode on Dr. Lane. He started his career in education serving as a band teacher, a school leader, and then system head in two districts before finally ending up at the Virginia Department of Education. Dr. Lane really wanted to see more engaging approaches to learning and truly believes

that the best decisions are made closest to the child as possible. He’s even announced that his office, which some thought of as the Tower of No, would soon be the Tower of Yes. In this discussion with Tom, Dr. Lane describes the Virginia is for Learners Innovation Network, a collaborative of 60 school districts.

We’ll also get to hear from investor turned advocate Ted Dintersmith, who joins Dr. Lane to lend his support for all of the innovation lighting up the Commonwealth. Let’s get to it. All right, Dr. James Lane, welcome to the Getting Smart podcast. Yeah, thanks, Tom.

Excited to be with you this morning. And you have a friend of Getting Smart Ted Dintersmith with you. Hello, Ted. Hey, Tom, how are you? Great to have you both on and looking forward to talking about all the exciting things heading

in the right direction in Virginia. Dr. Lane, where did you grow up and how did you become superintendent in Virginia? Well, I hope I’m still growing every day. But I’ve been superintendent of public instruction here in Virginia for about 16 months. I came here after what I think is a very traditional pathway.

I was a teacher, actually a band director. I taught music. I liked to joke that we were doing performance assessment before it was a thing. I think band teachers and world language teachers have been doing competency-based, performance-based before they knew it was cool.

Yeah, yeah, that’s exactly what we think. And so, you know, really wanted to take that experience where I thought we had a great classroom and were maximizing kids’ potential and wanted to make sure my entire school could do that. So a very traditional route through the assistant principal and the principal ship, then wanted

to have impact on the whole district and have great schools like I thought mine was. And so I was superintendent in Middlesex, Gutchland and Chesterfield County, which is one of the largest districts in the nation. And then I came to the state where I have the awesome opportunity to have the impact on 1.3 million students and nearly 100,000 teachers in the Commonwealth of Virginia.

You came to a state that had some interesting momentum. What attracted you to the role? Well, as a division leader, I had the opportunity, obviously, to work really closely with the state. But ultimately, the opportunity to have impact on every child in our state and in our Commonwealth

was a huge opportunity. But, you know, for years, right or wrong or true or not, folks in our state thought of our VDOE as a tower of no. And we had a, we literally in a tower, we’re in a 25 story building and we have the top few floors.

And I just wanted the Virginia Department of Education to be a place where folks would come and see us as leaders of innovation, just like we saw in many school districts in the Commonwealth. So, you know, I’ve talked a lot about how we wanted to become the tower of yes and open doors to school districts to try new things that would maximize students potential and

innovate. And, you know, when I think of innovating, I think of something that’s not just newer, but newer and better. But also we wanted to build a spirit of equity that, you know, in the Commonwealth, many of our students are doing really well.

We’re often ranked at the top of the national rankings. But when you really look inside of Virginia, what’s going on, we have some inequities and we have some, some poverty issues and societal issues and race issues. And so I wanted to come and really help us think through those things and how we could resolve some of those things to make sure that Virginia continues to be a leader for

every child. Dr. Lane, we frequently write about the portrait of a graduate in Virginia. Is that proven to be useful infrastructure? Oh, of course. I mean, the need and really not just our state, but all around the nation to move from a focus

on, you know, content knowledge to content knowledge and skills together is essential. You know, when I am in the community and I hear from our teachers and I hear from business leaders and I hear from community leaders what kids need to be successful after school, those five critical skills that came out of that profile are essential. You know, creative thinking, critical thinking, communication, collaboration and citizenship

are the skills that everyone wants to develop in their own children and certainly are the skills that we hope as the Commonwealth to develop in every child. But what we’ve seen as our school divisions take that North Star, that vision and just take it to a whole other level than we could have ever imagined. And you just see this deeper learning focus and this really engaging approach to instruction

starting to evolve that really started with a vision set by the state even before I arrived. And that has just been amazing to watch over the last 16 months. It has been fun to watch. And I think Virginia got this delicate balance right of both signaling a new era where new skills are important and avoiding mandates, you know, of shining a path forward and then

inviting people to really make it their own. I appreciate how your state has approached this. Well, as a policymaker, which is a huge part of my job, what I believe is that the best decisions about a child are made as close to that child as possible. And so I think we need to set the right structures and build a box in which we’ll innovate, but

at the same time make sure that those that know the most about our children are tapping into their unique potential, their interests, their desires and building our education system around that. Let me ask Ted a couple questions. Ted, first of all, congratulations again on your most recent book, What School Could Be?

It seems to be doing really well. And it’s just such an inspirational summary of what’s possible and learning today. Are you seeing just great uptake and enjoying talking to people around the country about your new book? Yeah, that’s been really exciting.

But, you know, as you know, I went out in the field, listened to and learned from educators. And I think what educators tell me is not so much they’re surprised by what is in the book, but they’re surprised that somebody with a business background actually appreciates and recognizes what they’re doing in the field. So in many ways, my role in that book was to highlight great things going on all over the

country, which led me to Virginia, where I think there’s just an enormous amount of progress, energy and vision being brought to education here. Right. And it’s really your adopted home state. I know you lived near Charlottesville.

It’s more than my adopted home state. So I grew up in Northern Virginia. I just did a kickoff for the school year at my old high school. Went to James Madison High School in Northern Virginia in Vienna. And they were kind enough to have me back to give a talk to all the high school, you know,

educators, but also all the feeder schools. And so that there was certain amount of closure and coming back to where I myself graduated from high school. So, yeah, so Virginia is near and dear to my heart. What what’s heading in the right direction in Virginia?

Well, I’d start with a couple of fundamental observations, you know, as we talked about my book. I mean, one of the points I make is our educators know what to do. You know, they entered the profession because they want to engage and inspire kids. They know what gets kids excited about learning.

They know what leads to deep and retained learning and meaningful skill development. I think the real issue is we’ve just gotten in their way. You know, there’s a lot of pent up innovation in the teaching force. And so when you engage and try to help in some modest way with the state in a state like Virginia, when you have someone like James Lane saying, and we’re going to be

in front of a bunch of districts in an hour or so. But when he stands in front of them and says, I’m turning the tower of no into the tower. Yes, I have your back. I’m excited when you do the types of things you enter the profession to do. And now we’re going to intentionally share those great breakthroughs, those those new

learning experiences, those micro innovations, broadly across the state. There’s a real magic that gets unleashed. And so that I think is what’s going on that’s so interesting in Virginia. And my Virginia is interesting is it’s it’s not the biggest state in the country, but it’s a large complex state representing all different types of diversity,

different geographies. And I mean, it’s just as representative as you can imagine. And so I think when Virginia starts to do remarkable things, it has every potential of really inspiring other states throughout the country. Ted, I’ve had the chance recently to visit schools in Albemarle County where Pam

Moran just retired after 32 years and just deeply appreciate her leadership. What would anything you’d like to say about Albemarle and the growth there? Well, Pam’s inspiring. I mean, she’s in my book. And I think that people from all over the country respect all the amazing

contributions she made. But I think Pam’s got consistent with what I said before this perspective of not micromanaging people, but putting in place the conditions that empower and enable people to do their very best work. And I think that’s what we’re seeing from James Lane at the state level is if we

can focus not on telling people what to do in the field and people being students, teachers, educators broadly, if it’s not telling them what they have to do, but empowering them to do what they passionately believe is in the best interest of the students, the children in their care. I think that is the model for change in our schools that really will be

effective, sustainable and meaningful. Dr. Lane, what other districts or collaborations between districts are you excited about in Virginia? Well, Tom, one of the most exciting things that we’ve been able to launch in Virginia is what’s called our Virginia is for Learners Innovation Network.

And just broadly, I’ll talk about what we think Virginia is for learners is. Virginia is for learners is not just a slogan, but it’s a movement that we’re trying to create in Virginia to build on this innovative spirit. You may be aware that we have a tourism slogan that’s called Virginia is for lovers. And Virginia is for lovers is about getting people to come experience the

history of Virginia, see the beautiful beaches, go to our mountains. But Virginia is for learners is about getting them to stay because of the great educational experience that we offer children and maybe and hopefully bring their businesses with them. But inside that, we build that on three pillars.

One is about preparing our students to go deeper and really creating these great engaging learning experiences in every classroom. The second pillar is about making sure that every child has a great experience after school. And then the third pillar is about making sure that as a state, we’re

measuring what really matters and and not focusing on measures that aren’t aren’t helping our schools move forward. But the reason I mentioned that that movement is out of that was born in this innovation network that you actually mentioned Pam, when you were talking to Ted a second ago.

Pam is actually a huge leader in this work along with, you know, Gina Keller, who’s a former member of the department and many members at the department, but this learning innovation network is what was started with 26 school districts that really wanted to come in and learn how to build out this deeper learning, this highly engaging, you know, student opportunities and

experiences every day in classrooms. And actually Ted’s been a huge supporter of that work. We’re now launching the second cohort and planning for a third cohort. And so when you when you have a state of 132 districts and 26 step up right away and say, you know, I’m ready to innovate, we wanted to find a way to

bring every school division in that wanted to do that. I think when we Ted, I think when we chose the first 26, they’re actually over 50 that wanted to do that work. But I will tell you some of the most innovative school districts in the nation are here in Virginia.

And we just wanted them to learn from each other. You asked me about specific districts and I almost hesitate to name any two or three because there will be 20 other districts that are doing incredible work that will be just furious if I don’t say them. But I will tell you, whether it’s Albemarle, who you’ve already talked about,

or Salem or Virginia Beach or small school divisions like Cumberland and Gutchland and large divisions like like Loudoun County. We’re just seeing all over the state and in Southwest Virginia. I mean, just where where the opportunities are are are just incredible for school divisions to innovate.

It’s this network has just been something that has really blown me away with what we’re going to do in the next phase in Virginia. Dr. Lane, we had Eric Williams on the podcast last week and we’re really excited about what’s happening in Loudoun County. We we really appreciate their motto in Loudoun, which focuses on helping

every child find and to begin to make their their own contribution. We love that sense of helping young people figure out who they are and what they’re good at and what they care about and where and how they want to make a difference. And that seems alive and well and loud.

So it’s it’s exciting to learn that that’s yeah, absolutely happening. And like I said, I could probably rail off 20 more school divisions just doing absolutely incredible work and but certainly Loudoun is doing some really, really cool stuff. Ted, what kind of learning would you hope to see in some of the high

schools that are part of the districts that are in this movement? What might be different in these high schools than a couple things I want to pile on a little bit to the points that James made so well, but that the model and I think it’s what’s really working in Virginia is again, it’s not everybody has to some top down central planning edict, but it’s who wants to

supporting putting in place the conditions that let people do their best work. And so when we launched this in March, we went out to every district, we said, we can support 20. Who’s interested? We got almost 60 that applied.

We ended up expanding in a bit. So we support 26. We’ve got a whole second cohort weight rolling in. But again, it’s not here’s what you have to do, but but tell us what you’re doing that’s working and we’re going to help shine a light on the things that

are really effective and great. And then spread that word across the other districts and say, don’t copy. But look at what they’re doing in hope. Well, what can you learn from that? What are you doing that sort of gets at some of the core fundamental goals that

their initiative gets at? And in your own way, we’re supporting and encouraging you to do things that are distinctive, the meet the needs of your students in your community. And so when you ask the question about what I hope to see, I hope to see what they want. You know, I don’t have a preconceived notion.

I mean, I think I have a really good frame of reference because of my time in the world of innovation about what types of skills and mindsets are going to prepare kids for a world where jobs come and go, careers come and go, where machine intelligence absorbs everything routine. So I think that aspect of what happens and what needs to happen in school, I’ve

got a complimentary expertise to what our educators have. I’m not an educator. I don’t claim to be an education expert, but I sure understand the world that these kids are going to going to enter into and live as an adult. And so when you start to see these high schools in their own way, let kids take

more voice in their learning, let kids create and implement bold initiatives, let those initiatives actually affect positive change in their community. So kids get that deep fulfilling sense of purpose that I can create something. I can learn what I need to learn. I can draw on resources in my community.

I can carry something forward that made my world better. I mean, those are going to be the skills that kids retain. Those are going to be the mindsets that carry them forward. That’s the kind of preparation that will serve kids well in the world they’re going to live in.

And so as we go and I travel a lot here, I don’t travel as much as James, but I’m in Virginia quite a bit. I get really excited when I see a high school doing something that isn’t just like a high school in a different part of the state, but in their own way has been thought through very carefully, that is working for their kids.

And you surprise of all surprises, if you start giving educators in the field permission to do that, they will blow you away. With what they’re capable of doing. When you start giving kids the opportunity to create something that matters, something they think is important.

These kids. And by the way, often the kids that we view as the ones that are struggling, the kids that aren’t the gifted kids, the kids that aren’t in the rich neighborhoods, you know, those kids, the kids in some of these communities that are desperately trying to help, you know, help their kids escape poverty.

Those kids given a chance to take on something they care about. Oh my gosh, it’s unbelievable what they’re capable of doing. We’re working with 15 districts and 60 high schools across Metropolitan Kansas City. And it’s so exciting to see a group of school districts working together.

One of the neat things about the initiative is because it’s in a shared geography, it’s really mobilizing business and higher education. So, Dr. Lane, I wonder if you could talk about ways in which other partners are becoming involved in this work. Are you seeing business and higher ed responding favorably?

Well, yeah, Tom, certainly I think we are. I think our as we as we develop the profile of Virginia graduate, certainly part of that was born out of our, you know, business leaders in the community sharing with us what some of the skills we’re going to be that students needed to be successful.

And, you know, often what we heard from businesses was if you can give kids these skills, I’ve already mentioned our five C’s of creative critical thinking, creative thinking, communication, collaboration and citizenship that when the students come to them with those skills, then they can really prepare them for whatever it is

that that business needs for that student to be successful. And so we wanted to build, you know, this this new Virginia education and our new standards around those critical skills. But then our higher ed partners have absolutely jumped in with both feet. They’re they’re they’re certainly supporting this network.

But probably the coolest thing that they’ve done is they’ve taken this profile of Virginia graduate and the higher ed community has led the work that we are doing to develop a profile of an educator and the profile of an education leader. So now we’re building out the competencies that we want in the folks

that work with our children to innovate as well. And so couldn’t couldn’t be happier with that work. And I think that’s really the next phase of what Virginia is going to do over the next two to three years as we as we think about moving beyond not only the skills that we want for our students, but what we want from our educators as well.

That’s really exciting. And Ted, what kind of advice would you have for other regional leaders or state leaders like what’s the in your experience? What’s the best way to mobilize this work? Yeah, I spent a lot of time in a couple other states, specifically in Hawaii and North Dakota.

So I’ve got a decent amount of experience at the state level. And then a fair amount of schools and districts. And by the way, I’ll just interject here. I mean, Tom Vander Arc has done incredible work for decades in education. I mean, this country is so lucky to have you and what you’ve done.

And so when you’re working with clusters like Kansas City, I just get a bit of goosebumps when I hear that because I think what you find is this is that it’s a lot easier for 10 teachers in a school to be innovative than one lonely innovator. It’s a lot easier for several schools in a community to be innovative than one. I mean, if it’s just one school, it’s kind of viewed as, oh, it’s that funky

alternative school for those kids. And the reality is all schools need to up their game. I mean, the the rate of increase of machine intelligence is I was reading an article last night where it used to be doubling in capability every two years, which is scary and frightening.

And this was a long thoughtful article that says it’s actually increasing by a factor of 10 every two years. I mean, we’re actually going into hyper acceleration for what machine intelligence can do. So anybody that says we’re doing just fine, we don’t need to continue. We need to continue to push to prepare our kids better for a world where machines do more and more

of what humans historically have done. And that’s not just moving boxes. That’s that’s this particular story was was in the New Yorker about artificial intelligence writing stories better than many New Yorker reporters. That’s a scary thought.

And so so. But I do think when you start to get people working together and saying we’re all in this together, innovations contagious, success, but get success. And what we’ve been trying to do here in Virginia. And I think we’re having really great progress in doing is to highlight things being done

all across the state to communicate to people. Not this is what you have to do. But but this is really exciting that they’re doing this here. And if you’re doing something in your district that works for your kids, there really is preparing them.

We want to highlight that as well. And people suddenly when they feel like the wind is at their back, when they feel like a James Lane, it does have have their back when he’s excited about things. Instead of somebody’s going to come along and wrap your knuckles. I think that just incredible things are will unfold will happen.

Because as I said, our educators know what to do. The issues that our policies and priorities have worked against preparing kids in an effective way for their future. And so I think we need to get at some of those core policy things. And it’s incredibly empowering when a James Lane will say to superintendents,

principals, teachers, I’ve got your back. It’s really exciting to see groups of people eager to learn about new strategies and new learning environments. It’s exciting to see what’s happening in Virginia. Dr. Lane, as we wrap up here, what’s next in Virginia?

What’s the roadmap for the next couple of years look like? Tom, I think the roadmap in Virginia is is going to have many facets. One is to continue to build on this learning innovation network cohort that we’ve built, bringing in more cohorts and continue into support, deeper learning and engaging student instruction.

I think at the state level, we’re going to continue to think about about how we can open up more opportunity for innovation in our school districts. I also think that we’re going to think about how we can resource this work, because what we know is that our students are coming in with many challenges. And as we’re building our schools such that all of them are going to be places

that will have this deeply engaging content we’ve got to invest in our teachers. We have got to continue to support the wraparound supports that are necessary to make sure that students have their basic needs met so they’re ready to learn when they come in the classroom. But ultimately, I think what’s next for Virginia is is is really going to come

from the field. You know, I think that Ted has talked a little bit about this. We’re not going to do something innovative at the state that is going to be the story of Virginia. What we’re going to do is we’re going to open up the conditions so that the

great stories can come from our teachers and our principals and our leaders that are just doing incredible work. And so part of what I hope is what’s next is that by opening the door and creating those conditions for innovation, more stories will pour in every day about how school divisions are really finally connecting with every child in their

community. So it doesn’t matter where a kid is from, no matter what zip code they are or whatever phrase you want to use there, that they’re having their opportunities and their potential maximized in our schools. And until we get to that point, which I think will be an ever growing process,

we’ll continue to fight to make sure that every one of our children have one of those great experiences. That’s great, Dr. Lane. It’s super exciting work. And Ted, thanks for all that you’ve done to stir up this storm of innovation

in Virginia. It’s really exciting. Well, it is and it’s important. You know, if you want kids to come out of school being innovative and creative, we need to model that with how we support our teachers.

And so I think that the communities, the districts, the schools and the states that get that right are going to be serving their kids really well. And Tom, I just have to jump in a second and just say a big thank you to Ted. I mean, whether it’s from his books and the books he’s partnered on or even some of his films, I think we’ve just learned so much in Virginia from folks

like Ted and so, you know, we’re going to continue to learn as Ted tours the nation along with everyone else, but certainly want to thank Ted for the support that he’s he’s given us in Virginia. Yeah, it’s it’s made a big difference. And gentlemen, are there places that people can learn more online?

We do have a Virginia’s for Learners website where we highlight a lot of the work going on. It’s Virginia’s for learners dot Virginia dot gov. But what I would encourage folks to do is to go to the websites of those school divisions that are in this network and see what they’re doing. Because this whereas whereas oftentimes we get credit as a state for

allowing some of this work, the work is really happening by our teachers out. Great. We’ll include a bunch of school and district links from all the great work that we know about in Virginia and Ted, where can people find out more about you and your books? Well, the good news is they’re just not a lot of Ted Dintersmiths out there.

So I’ve got a website, creatively www.teddintersmith.com. I’d encourage people to check out a resource we’re using here in Virginia called the Innovation Playlist, which is www.innovationplaylist.org. And then if they’re so inclined, follow me and and I’ll be announcing

I’ve formed something new with Sir Ken Robinson. So if they follow either Ken or me or both of us on Twitter sometime early next year, we’ll be announcing an initiative that I think takes this to the next level in terms of offering support and resources to groups like this team of people you’ve got in Kansas City so they can form their

own community clusters across a school or across a district or a community or even across the state. Great. Ted and James, thanks so much for being on the Getting Smart podcast. It’s really exciting to learn about what’s happening in Virginia. Thanks, Tom.

A big thanks to Dr. James Lane and Ted Dentress Smith for joining us on today’s episode. We appreciate the work Dr. Lane and his team at the Virginia Department of Education are doing to support learners for more on all things innovations and learning.

Be sure to check out GettingSmart.com and don’t forget to hit subscribe. So you’re sure not to miss out on any future episodes. All right, that’s it for today. Listeners, thank you for tuning in. And for the Getting Smart podcast, this is Jessica signing off.

Thank you.