What Makes a Conference Great?

You’re listening to the Getting Smart podcast. I’m Shani Carruthers, and today I am thrilled to be joined by Victoria Andrews, one of my esteemed colleagues at Getting Smart. We’re also joined by Dr. Shamika Jorl, the vice president of learning at Yellow. Recently, the three of us went to Big Pictures Big Bang conference.

Victoria, what is one word that you will use to capture your experience? One word would definitely be invigorating. I think this was probably my second conference this year, right after South by Southwest, and after not having any professional conferences for the last two years. It was so invigorating and just uplifting and encouraging to be around so many other

people that have such passion for education, passion for students, and it was evidence. It wasn’t just in talk because they had students there, students leading, so you could really see the mission and vision of Big Bang and Big Picture Learning through their conference. And this was your first time going, and I’m sure you’ve heard like lots of great things about it in the past.

Did it live up to the hype? It met and exceeded the expectations. Definitely five out of five stars. Highly recommend. Honestly, I try to go into those kind of situations blank slate, even though I heard a lot about

it just so that I can manage expectations and everything that happened during those days just blew my mind. Like I said, I was so grateful just to be around everybody, to see the work that was being done, and to really see in organizations just mission and vision and action. And speaking of being around everybody, Shamika, we’ll call you Shamika for purposes of the

podcast, but you had your whole team with you. What was that like and what is your word that you would use to capture your experience? So I’ll start with my word because then the word will tie into the other part of the question. So my word for it, and I’ve said it many times, is homecoming. It felt like I was home with my people, and it definitely was like that from the first

time I attended Big Bang all the way up to this experience. And the reason the entire team attended is because really thinking about education and innovation and education and blowing up the box and all those cool things that we talk about. Big Picture Learning was the one place where I felt like you could really be your authentic

wild self. They accept you for that. And the work that we’re doing at Yellow is so big and we’re really rethinking school. I wanted everyone to have that experience where you’re with like-minded educators who are really showing up as their authentic selves in that space and allowing them to be free

in that space, but to also see that we’re not alone in this work, that there are people out there doing it. So it just was- I felt like I was home, but I was bringing my new family with me home. Like it was me and my cousins. It was me and my cousins.

It was my cousins, our nieces, our aunts, our nephews. It truly felt like- it felt like home. And if I was to choose a word, I think I would just choose foundational. And it’s kind of a mix of what both of you all have said because they were so focused on relationships.

They were so focused on truly being authentic. They were so focused, like you said, Victoria of Incorporated Students. It was just a good reminder of just those foundational pieces of education that sometimes we forget. Just the pouring in, the building those relationships from the very beginning and keeping them throughout,

having fun, experience and joy throughout everything that you do. And so- and then we can get into this more, but- and then it was grounded with just all the inspiration that was happening with like Dr. Emden and all of the great things that were happening just across those few days that we were there. So just some good like level setting of what we should be doing with kids.

So just a really good reminder. And so as we think of Big Bang, obviously it’s one of many conferences, but it’s just maybe the most recent one. Why should educators, both public and independent, any type of educator, have Big Bang on their educational conference bucket list?

Victoria, I’ll start with you. Wait, before you start with Victoria though, I just want to acknowledge the fact that y’all had these great words, like invigorating and foundational level setting. And I’m like, girl, it was like homecoming. I didn’t like- It was homecoming.

It was like- I’m gonna go back- It was like, no, it’s the fact that I’m on a podcast and y’all are using these words. And I’m like, girl, it was like homecoming because these are my- It was. It was. Okay.

So I felt mine was so stop, Shamika, because I liked homecoming because it felt the fact- What you said, the authentic self. Everything that I fell in love with education, like being like- It’s a calling for me. It is- I know that I have to serve and teach. And so that’s why it felt so great.

Because it was a homecoming. It’s like the invigorate- The last couple of years have been so challenging in education. They’ve been challenging for everybody. But in education, it’s like you cannot catch a break at all. It’s like it’s virtual learning, then it’s virtual and in-person and it’s a hybrid and

then you start and you stop. And so it was like, this is why I do what I’m doing because it’s like you’re around people, the relationships, you re-establish relationships, you start relationships. And I’m like, I’m not going to be able to show up as my authentic self in a space that isn’t always honored or celebrated.

So I liked your word homecoming. I liked your word homecoming too. And then we were like, I fell in love. It just made me think, okay, just and this will be a shout out to Tim Jones, just like this hip hop piece.

Like, I remember when I fell in love with the big bang, just like when I fell in love with hip hop. Yeah. So I completely, I mean, it was a vibe. Let’s just call it what it was.

It was a whole vibe that we didn’t want to leave. And we were like, I can’t wait until next year. And that’s kind of rare. I mean, we go to conferences and we love them and we kind of get a lot out of them. But in most cases, we are taking so much away.

But in this case, we were, we took a lot away, but we were also able to pour in so much into our learning, our connections. And like you said, we just met a whole new family that we can’t wait to get back together with next year. So definitely it was a homecoming.

but the more it should be in the drum major. Well, Shamika was our drum major, but maybe I might have been at some point leading something. But I think that the question that you asked, though, Sean, it was like, what role do they serve in like thinking about what Victoria was saying, like for the past two, almost three years, when you think about it, not having those connections, it was virtual, like we did virtual conferences, like I did a bunch of those,

but not having the opportunity to create community with people. I think what, and this is not a paid advertisement for Big Picture Learning, like I mean, what they do is create a sense of community, because sometimes at conferences, it can be overwhelming that you’re going from session to session to session to session to session and taking information out and figuring out how you’re going to digest it and put it in practical application. I think one thing, like as conferences,

as we come back into a space or in-person conferences, are things that will occur more frequently. It’s figuring out how are you modeling or walking the talk. Like if you say this is what you’re about, how are you modeling that through the interactions throughout the experience and also limiting the amount of information people are taking away, because you can become overwhelmed by going to session after session after session, and then you come back to your place of employment

or your work, and then you don’t really have anything effective to implement because you were spread so thin. And I think about some of the bigger conferences I’ve been to, like I ain’t going to call nobody out, I am from a culture, but I’m not going to say no names, but you can literally spend your time at a huge convention facility and have a thousand sessions to pick from and maybe do 10 in a matter of two days. How effective will you be in implementing that when

you get back? So that’s just kind of thinking it is homecoming, but the intentionality about creating like this environment where you’re learning and you’re not overwhelmed by everything. Yeah, and we’ve all been to those conferences, like you said, like, okay, look, we got 12 people, we each going to go to five different conferences on, I mean, strands on each day, and then we’re going to come back and we’re going to sit down and reflect. Instead of we’re going to go do some

learning, but we’re also going to get out in the community, we’re also going to pour back into each other, we’re also going to process and understand how we have time, how we bring that back to our individual communities. So you do have that time. But as we think about conferences today, because you all have touched on it, Victoria, when you were just saying like, we were in the midst of the pandemic, we haven’t had those interactions, all those things are important. What role, especially

today in let’s say 2022, after going through all of that, what role do conferences serve at this time in education? And then Shemeika, what I would like for you to answer is sometimes people are so hesitant to like bring their teams either because of cost or whatever the case may be or because that sometimes they don’t feel like some of their team members will get what out of it, what they want them to get out of it. But you did that, you brought your whole team. So I also want to talk

about the benefits of being in that space with a group of people that you’re going to be connected with throughout that year. And that’s for any conference. Conferences now, given all that’s going on. It is a time for pause, a time for you to actually like digest information. So I think there just like there was a shift in a pivot and how we presented information to learners, scholars, students over the past three years, that has to shift of how we present information to

adult learners. It cannot be the ram down your throat, 60 sessions in two days, now go do it. Like that’s not it. We need to digest, we have to slow it down. We have to reflect. I mean, change is gradual. And so at conference, especially at Big Bang, there was time for you to sit and process what’s going on. It wasn’t an exhaustive amount of sessions that were offered so that you could go deeper into the thinking you could drill down. And then there was blocks of

time where you could sit and mull it over, talk with your team if you brought a team, or if you came with somebody else or journal or just reflect. I know Shani and I, there were times we just set by the water, by the ocean, and just like process everything of the day, the session, the conversations we had, how intentional they were. So I think conferences, they have an opportunity just like all learning institutions do right now to just really make a shift and learn,

do things differently, create a new pathway for people to learn. There’s still an eco sphere of learning that can happen. It’s just how it happens needs to change. Yeah. And I think the benefit of bringing like an entire team is that when you think about concepts like innovation, school transformation, young people at the center of learning, like driving the decision making, it’s easy for one person to go to a conference and get some information and come back and be like,

guys, I’m so excited about this one thing. But sometimes when you think about large-scale change, you have to have everyone on the same page and they have to have similar experiences and be in similar places. It doesn’t mean that they’re all going to like drink the Kool-Aid and say, oh, this is the greatest experience of my life. But it does give perspective to organizationally what can happen. And it also gives you a space where you can make those connections with other

like-minded people that may be in a similar space that you’re in. And sometimes you might feel isolated, especially around innovation and transformation. It creates that ecosystem around you as well. So I think the purpose of like really bringing large groups and so I’ve done this conference three years. This is my third time. Each year I brought a similar similarly sized team. So when I was a public school principal, I brought eight people. The following year I brought my superintendent,

chief academic officer and six other people. So it was a mindset thing so that they could see where my thinking was coming from. But then they were able to also do application of their own interpretation of what they gathered. It’s good for you to be able to take a team so that they can see kind of where your big ideas, your big vision comes from and that you’re associated with like-minded people who have similar thoughts around education and that are actually doing that work.

So they might not come back believing everything that, you know, or drinking the Kool-Aid, but being able to have a lens into and big picture learning did a session when I went my first year called Wild Principle. I think it’s on Getting Smart website actually and I was in that session and that really was the place where I felt seen, heard and loved immediately in that session. So for people to come back with me to a place where I felt my most authentic self and they can see me

and all of the glory that is like this. There is a lot of glory. Yes, all of this, like all of these experiences I’ve had in education and then, you know, to see why I push as hard as I do, I think it’s helpful for people to see where it all came from and that I’m not alone and it’s okay to think differently about education. So I think that’s why it’s really important for transformational teams especially if you’re trying to do, I did a school, tried to do a school

within a school model in a public school setting and now I’m in an independent setting. So it translates to both public and private or independent. So that’s the thing that it’s like school transformation takes a, in my favorite words of Nate, level setting and that’s how we level set it. We did a level set and we ground truth. We ground truth. You all have said a lot of great things and in my head I was just trying to think like we’ve been to some great conferences.

Obviously this most recent one is the one that’s standing out at the Big Bang but we’ve been to a lot of great ones. And so I’m just trying to think what makes a conference worth returning to every year. So we talked about the ability to bring a team and make sure that they get fed, not just for food but just for learning. The food was going to. The food was amazing. It was amazing. We can do it. Right. So but that’s another component, right? Like the inclusivity.

So it was so. Yeah. So when a conference is inclusive, intentional, it pushes your thinking, it challenges your thinking, it creates an atmosphere for a team to thrive and reflect. You can be your authentic self and then just general fun and joy and not okay look not every conference is going to have the Ealtown slug us. That’s what we’re going to call them for purposes sorry, Shamika. Formally known as Notting by Nature or some component of it, the Ealtown slug us.

Not every conference is going to have that. However, there are other things that makes a conference really worth returning to and in other ones like that I’ve been to, like I’ve seen them like create artwork that was a true reflection of the participants that were in the crowd, as well as being really intentional about innovative practices. So like spaces where you can go try out the metaverse or you can dive deep with like Adobe and try to like flip your way of thinking.

So just all kind of different spaces. But as you all think about what makes a conference work returning to what are some of those components for you? I think creating a sense of community and connection is one. I also and I know that folks aren’t going to like this, but I also think scale is important because having a conference with 20,000 attendees is great. But some of the things that I think about in terms of what fed my spirit was conferences where it wasn’t a ginormous amount of

people. And even if there was, it was cohorted in a way that it didn’t feel huge. It made sure that I was intentionally connected with other people. I think that’s what makes me want to come back. And when I feel like presenters that are associated with the organization, their sessions are really because they’re walking the talk. And it’s not like I’m just shooting information at you. It’s literally I’m doing with you, what you modeling the practice.

I mean, I went to another conference, I think it was Ed Leader 21, and I walked into a session on creativity and the lady gave me a piece of paper with three dots on it, like three other sticks. And I was like, what are we supposed to do with this? And she sat there until we, but like that is a memorable experience for me because then when we had the conversation about how do you spark creativity, I had a frame of reference and I had an activity. My degrees in applied mathematics,

I was mad that the dots weren’t in a straight line. They were three different colors. I didn’t have the same dots as other people. But when I was left, I might as that, if you will. I didn’t have a fixed my time. Thank you for pointing that out, Victoria. But it’s stuff like that that I remember and makes me want to return because the smaller setting or being able to make those real intentional connections with people and really being in spaces where people are, it’s not

pretentious. Like that, I’m gonna just say you don’t come in there and be pretentious and be better than me at everything. I know you got a book, but can you be regular? Right. Regular people saying some regular things and Victoria, before you answer, because I’m going to add this to your piece of the question, same question, Victoria, but because you were fangirling like crazy when Dr. Chris M. then walked in the room because, right, he’s a bot, right?

He’s a whole, he’s a, right? So I want to ask you how important is it for those people to show up in those spaces as well? Like people who you follow or who you know from other things and like, you know, I’ve been at a conference where like Cornell West was on the screen and some of those kind of like how important is it for those kind of components to be part of a conference that makes it worth returning to as well? It’s a Shumika’s point. It’s the regular people.

So it’s like at the end of the day, he’s vibrant to the DJ, just like we are. Like is coming in with his wife. They’re both so fly. And then the next day he is giving us all the educational gems pouring into us. So it’s like, it’s like seeing your superhero just in your regular clothes. So you’re like, okay, this is, I can be the superhero too. Like I got it. So it’s just so, it was just necessary. It’s necessary for people of that nature who have been blessed

and gifted with the opportunity to have a higher platform like Tim as well for them to be in those spaces. You know, I don’t want to speak for them, but I can imagine it’s just as encouraging and as invigorating. It’s a homecoming for them. And it’s just, I can’t even imagine what it’s like to come and to be so well received. And then they can just move about the space as if it’s just like they’ve been there the whole time. So I think it’s super important. Like I said, it’s like you’re

seeing your superhero in their plain clothes. And you’re like, I can do this too. It gives you that jolt, that infusion to like, I need to keep on going. The work that I’m doing is important. It’s necessary. But to go back a little bit, why, why do you repeat anything? Yeah, yeah. Like why do you why do you eat the same food? Why do you keep going to the restaurant? You look through the whole menu and you still go back to that same dish. It’s like, you enjoy it. It’s familiar. It’s like,

I feel like I’m just going to look. I mean, sorry, I feel seen. I feel seen. Because of what it does to you, because the feeling, not just the like, the, you know, the emotional feeling or the physical feeling, but what it just brings to your, to your life. So why would I go back to Big Bang? Because it’s gonna, it’s gonna all of the feelings, the sensations, whether it’s, I mean, it is going to be in Kansas City next year and there won’t be an ocean. But,

you know, I told you there will be an ocean of barbecue. Stop, stop playing. But it was before and it was still amazing. Yes. So it’s regardless of the physical location, all that it brings, it will be brought to whatever city it’s delivered in. And so just like, why do you repeat anything else for everything that it brings to you, all the memories that are associated with it? You can go back and think back and reflect and,

oh, how have you been and what’s going on and to catch up. And so I will, if I’m allowed, if it is okay with getting smart. I’ll check the list. I’ll check the list and see if you’re invited back. I have to make sure that I stay on the up and up so I can go back. Like what, why is Victoria her best behavior? Well, she wants to come to Kansas City next year. All the things you said is so true. And, and, you know, like I said, Big Bang is great,

you know, but just as we think about just like conferences in general, like you said, Victoria, is like, why, why do we return to anything? Why do we return to any conference because of those things you said, because it’s intentional and it’s relational and all of that. So, and I think it especially feels great too when a conference is really connected with the community that they’re going to. So like when people come to Kansas City, interact with the Kansas City community or San

Antonio or Seattle, whatever the case may be. So we’ll get to the leaving to learn in just a second with Big Bang. Because I know we did, you know, had some great experiences. But have you all been to any other conference where they were super intentional about the place that they were in? I went to Ed Leader 21 and they had similar like excursions. I can’t remember exactly what they called them, where there was connection with the community. I do not think I’ve been to a play

conference where those things occurred in addition to students being present or young people, young people being present in the space with us and helping guide us through that. Also, every leave to learn was not geared toward just like education, like, oh, go to the school and see how they implement this strategy. I feel like the leave to learn experiences have always been rooted in social justice. They are always intentional about including young people.

But also really focused on it’s not just about this strategy in action. It’s like thinking bigger, learning deeper, all of that stuff. But I have been to some conferences and I love a good conference that’s going to take me out of the conference center and get me doing something in the community so I can learn more about that local community. Yeah. So as my friend, Victoria, would say, let’s get into it for a second. One, I want to talk about. Let’s get it.

Let’s do it. Let’s toss on. Let’s go. Well, like I said, we’ll circle back around to the leave to learn in just a second. But one of the common things that has come up continuously during this conversation was kids in the center. So we talk, we always at these conferences, we’re always talking about like, yes, kids, yes, you know, we want to do everything, but very, very rarely are they physically there. And not just like three or five, that’s a good sampling that they

might do a quick panel, but they are learning alongside of you and they are giving voice and they’re leaving to learn they’re doing all the things you’re doing because you all are having the same experience. Why is that so important and how can, why and how should conferences do that more? So I’ve had this conversation with another really great friend of mine who runs, she’s the executive director for a nonprofit organization that brings in students to expose

them to jobs and different careers in the oil and gas field. And we’ve talked about this on other, at other conferences, it’s the timing. So most conferences are anywhere from three to five days. So if you take students out of school for that many days, that’s, you know, while it can be coded as a field trip or an opportunity to learn, that’s still a lot of time. And if you also look at the time of year, some of the conferences happen, it may be in the spring, which might be heavy

testing time or heavy, you know, performance activity times where it’s either, you know, baseball or whatever the case may be. So factors play a part. I think even pulling students right before like, when the time of Big Bang, we’re taking students away from their summer. So it’s not that it’s impossible, but I think there’s just so many other factors that play a part in it too. But so the fact that we’ve seen it done means it can be done. Right. And to your point,

Shani, it’s not just a panel of kids that are for students that are up there saying things like, you know, two or three kids, they were in sessions, they were leading the leading to learns, they were a part of all of the learning. So it can happen. Even if a student is, you know, even if they’re, we give them the opportunity to help design the conference or have input in it, it’s possible. It’s just like in a classroom, you don’t know what a kid doesn’t know until you

start doing some work with them. And they give you so much insight to what you’re trying to do. They can totally, I honestly believe we haven’t even seen the best conference yet. For sure. It’s been designed. Right. Well, and what I’m just going to push back on that a little bit, because I am a firm believer in amplification of the voices of young people and amplification authentic ways. Like there’s some, there’s like this student voice continuum that’s floating out

around there that I think came out in 2021. And so if we want student, young people, if we want young people to lead, we will, like we can remove a barrier for anything else. Yes. Like if we want, if we want Shani to come speak at something, we will remove every barrier to getting her there. We, yeah. And we’ll give her a credit. We’ll do, we’ll fly you out. Why are we not willing? If we really are about amplification of the voice of young people, if you really bout that life,

you will remove every barrier. And I do feel like if that’s the center of your universe, if the young person is, you will make it happen. Yeah. I think that’s the thing. So are we willing to, as the leaders of the conference, step back and minimize our voice so that the young people’s voice is amplified. And if we’re not willing to do that, then it’s always going to be one of those performative things. Oh, do this panel, pass out these handouts. What I want to see in a

conference is if you’re going to talk about young people, put them in the middle and remove the excuse of, well, it’s this time of school year. Well, you knew that when you play in a conference. Facts. Facts. So that means you’re not centering the voice of young people. So that’s the thing is like, if we are really about that life, we will make it happen. Otherwise, you’ve given me a lot of lip service and I don’t want to hear anything. Yeah. Yeah. It’s so true.

And when students truly are in the sitar and I’m in the sitar space, she’s like, I know, right? She’s snapping, but I just can’t see it. Her face is snapping. But I’m going to circle back before we close out here. I’m going to circle back to the lead to learn for a second because like you said, Victoria, the best conference hasn’t even been designed yet because students are out there and they’re going to do all these amazing things. And speaking of amazing things and the

lead to learn, I know the students helped to make you go viral during your lead to learn. So tell me more. Tell me more. But I just want you to talk briefly about what is a lead to learn number one and what was your activity and how did you go viral? Great. All of those great questions. I’m ready to answer them all. So first, I a lead to learn is not a field trip. It’s an learning opportunity where all participants are learning. All participants take an active

role in their learning and the learning of others. My lead to learn, also known as the best one, was at Urgent Inc. Shemeika, that was a hard eye roll. That was a hard eye roll, Shemeika. Remains to be saying. But no, seriously, I want to thank the staff and the students at Urgent Inc in Florida because they said it was their first time showcasing student work. I don’t believe that because they sent us in stations. So we had

students lead us through animation, through various short films that they created. They showed us how to create a TikTok. Hence why I’m a viral superstar on TikTok. And they also showed us their photography. Victoria’s about to quit because she said internet sensation. And another special shout out to Mason, who is my creative director. If you have any questions, you can channel them through him. He was the guide. I was the muse. He was the guide. I just

brought his vision to life. The rest is TikTok history. No, seriously. So the students asked questions, guided us through everything that they learned in their summer internship experience. And so I just was floored. And it didn’t feel like, oh, now I’m going to learn about this. It was just, they just put us right in there. And I thoroughly enjoyed myself. What was your other question about my TikTok viral moment?

Well, I think you answered that as much as we would like for you to answer that. I think you have to have more than 10 people at a conference see you in Article of Viral. But we’ll talk about that later. Shamika, what was your lead to learn? Viral person. Because I wanted to let you know that you can’t be viral unless I saw it. That you were talking at the conference, if you didn’t see it, then it didn’t happen.

Me and Stephanie Walters, our director of engagement, if we did not see it, it did not happen. It didn’t happen. It didn’t count. It did not happen. It did not count because we were thoroughly engaged in amplifying the things that were occurring. So my lead to learn experience, AKA the best lead to learn experience ever, we did Miranda Farms and Ranch and Davey Fouardum. And we went, so I think what I love most about lead to learn is that there’s no script. It’s just

like you get on this big bus, you get off the bus, and then you’re there with the proprietor, and they take you on this journey of why, how, what they do, how they contribute to the community. And so shout out to Miranda Farms and Ranch, all the stuff that they grew, all the things that we ate for lunch there, which is why ours was the best, were things that were grown and or like from the cows, we had pasta and the vegetables from the garden.

But they took us through this tour of the land. They talked about the historic courses that were on her property. She taught us about coyotes, stealing stuff from the yard. They, it really was not about the farm or the ranch. In my mind, it was all about how do I take something like this back and can I put a farm at my school? They had bees, and we were talking about like she gets the bees from Italy, the Queens are flown in from Italy, and I was like, oh, they’re fancy bees. Like,

are they Versace bees? Like, they have Versace bees. We have to be happy. They’re making that. They guys are beyond happy. But you got Versace bees making Versace honey. No, but like, and people were able to ask any question they had about the ranch at that point. And it, and it wasn’t, it was just like curiosity. So we were learning about the farm.

We were learning about how the money and the grant, how they got the land. They learned, we learned about why they do the things they do. We were asking about possibly alligators, because there was some water around. Like, so do y’all have gators crawling? I was just like, oh, we didn’t see one in a couple months. I was like, wait a second, is it like a lunar? Yeah. She taught us about the lunar cycle of the coyotes as well, and that the coyotes only come

on like Mondays and Wednesdays because of the lunar cycle. And so like she will sit on, like, we learned so much about just farm life, but then translating it back to when I came back from my leave to learn activity in my advisory group, being able to talk to them about what I learned there and learn from their experiences. I just think that for me was more than just like go out and look at this curriculum and implementation. It was literally about go out into the community,

learn something about Florida, learn something about the place that we’re at, hyper localized learning was occurring. And I walked away from that not only probably about five pounds heavier from all the pasta because they had fresh made Alfredo songs. Honey, like, let me tell you, but I walked away from it with a renewed sense of connection to my local community. And really coming back seeking out how could we create partnerships like this for our organization,

or even is this something that we could do locally with our explorers and just thinking bigger than I thought before I went out on that trip. And I just want you to know, Shemeika just like said so many great things. But in my head, the main thing I heard was, coyotes come at night. That’s all I heard. So thank you, Shemeika, and thank you both for leading to learn reflections. And I’m going to just close us out here because, listen,

we haven’t had a script, but this has truly been a journey. I appreciate you all being here with us and just walking through this not only the Big Bang reflection, but just just walking through just conferences in general and really thinking about how they shape how we learn and what can happen and what meaning like the next steps after participant leaves, when they have a really powerful learning experience and how that vibrates throughout

their community. So I just want to thank you all for those who couldn’t see it all. There were lots of arrows. I want you all to know that tons of shade, but they, they, the shade, but it was like so much laughter to enjoy. So just want to say thank you all for joining the Getting Smart podcast today and we hope to talk to you all again soon. Thanks for tuning in to the Getting Smart podcast today. We want this podcast to be

actionable and insightful and a great way to learn about what’s next in learning. In order to stay on the cutting edge, we need people in the field to tell us what they’re hearing, what they’re wanting, and what they’re needing to learn more about. Got a topic or a guest in mind? Send your recommendations to me, Mason, at GettingSmart.com. And if you like what you’re hearing, don’t forget to leave a review on Apple podcasts or subscribe wherever you listen.

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