Getting Smart and Carlos Moreno: Live from SXSW

Join Shawnee Caruthers and Carlos Moreno in an enlightening conversation recorded live from SXSW EDU 2025. They discuss the transformative power of leading with love, care, and vulnerability in education, as well as exploring the theme of Humanizing Pathways Leadership. Carlos Moreno, co-director of Big Picture Learning, shares his insights and experiences in empowering students and communities. With heartfelt stories and thought-provoking discussions on emotional intelligence and leadership, this episode is a must-listen for educators, leaders, and anyone passionate about creating impactful educational pathways. Discover how embracing emotional intelligence and community-focused leadership can redefine success in education. Tune in to learn more about how we can all contribute to a more inclusive and supportive learning environment.

Outline

• (00:00) Introduction to Storytelling and Change
• (02:11) Humanizing Pathways Leadership
• (04:50) Audience Interaction and Icebreakers
• (08:24) Emotional Intelligence in Education
• (12:17) Leadership Lessons and Personal Stories
• (29:58) Building Trust and Respect in Education
• (30:59) Navigating Emotions and Vulnerability
• (34:42) The Role of Mentorship in Education
• (41:24) Living by Your Values as a Leader
• (47:24) The Importance of Relationships in Schools
• (50:07) Counseling and Mentoring Educators
• (56:48) Closing Thoughts and Future Actions

Introduction to Storytelling and Change

Shawnee Caruthers: I’m Shawnee Caruthers with Getting Smart. I am the partner of advocacy there at Getting Smart Collective. And I’m joined by Carlos Moreno, who I will introduce in just a second, or as my friend Victoria says, Carlos Moreno Baraka.

So the thing, I think this is the first time you heard that. I’m going to let you hear the voice message that she left this morning. I’ll have

Carlos Moreno: a conversation. Victoria Unh. But,

Shawnee Caruthers: and speaking of unhinged, this whole session is going to be unhinged. We’re so glad that you’re here.

Los reminded me that the people who are in this room are the people who are supposed to be in this room. So thank you for showing up and being in community today. We truly love that.

Humanizing Pathways Leadership

Shawnee Caruthers: The theme of this session is Humanizing Pathways Leadership. Specifically, how do we lead with love, care, and vulnerability into career pathways for students?

And no one is better to talk about that than Los himself. And if you’re not familiar with Los, which most of you probably are, but just in case, here’s this very short bio. We are recording this podcast for Getting Smart.

Carlos Moreno: Stop hating on it. Listen, we haven’t even started yet. This is going to be a long beginning. Everyone get comfortable. Yes.

Shawnee Caruthers: Just know that we are family and we will act as such. We are so honored to welcome Los to the Getting Smart podcast today here at South by Southwest. Los is a visionary leader in the field of education. He’s the co-director of Big Picture Learning, a nonprofit organization that’s developed more than 200 innovative schools worldwide. Their goal, their focus, their mission is to tackle systemic equity issues. Beyond his role at Big Picture, he co-founded and leads the Deeper Learning Equity Fellows, of which some of us are a part.

He also established the Asha Leaders Fellowship and is the founder and producer of the acclaimed Leadership Journeys storytelling initiative, which features people like Chris Emdin, Dena Simmons, Kaya Henderson, Misha Porter, and my favorite, Dr. Shameika Nicole Gerald. Los holds many degrees, and he is a proud New Yorker, though he doesn’t have the fur coat like some. He is an amazing family person and an amazing father to his daughter Bella, who is a student at Duke. At his core, Los is an observer, a family man, a learner, a builder of community, a student and a teacher, and someone who has simultaneously found and continues to seek his own leadership soul, as featured in his book. Please join me in welcoming Los, Carlos Moreno, to the pod.

Audience Interaction and Icebreakers

Shawnee Caruthers: Before we dive in with Los, we want to hear from you all. We want this conversation to truly be organic. Although Los and I are the ones up here on the stage, we really want some interaction with you all in the audience. Let’s practice that. We’re going to start with an opening icebreaker. By a show of hands, how many of you have had a teacher, mentor, or leader who truly saw you for who you are?

Would anyone love to share a quick story about their experience? Please join us.

DuJuan Smith: Greetings and Happy Tuesday, everyone.

Shawnee Caruthers: Happy Tuesday, Wednesday.

DuJuan Smith: It’s Wednesday only in Austin. I’m still living in the incredible Tuesday I had yesterday. I got my first tattoo. Listen, okay. Days are a construct. Please go ahead. Here we go. Back to the full presence of Wednesday. Now I’m connected. I really think about my high school counselor, who went on to become a principal, Dr. Juan Gardner. At that time, I had come from some dark places in my life and I remember always gravitating to him.

When it came down to thinking about college, which was such a foreign concept for me, I was a photographer and I thought I wanted to be a photographer and a DJ. I was excited about it, though I didn’t know a photographer or a DJ. He was like, “DuJuan, I think you can do anything you want to do. You take great photos, but I think you’re brilliant. I think college would be amazing for you and it would change your life in ways you wouldn’t even imagine.” So I took a leap thanks to Dr. Gardner. In a different world, I always have to shout out a different world, and he couldn’t have been more right. I exist as a higher ed administrator and professor today because of that. I love people. I always like to say I got to borrow his wings until I realized I had mine. Thank you so much.

Shawnee Caruthers: That’s a whole word. Thank you. I’ve seen your photography, so he definitely poured into you and spoke life into your work. Thank you for sharing. Los, is that story foreign as far as hearing a student or a former student who was poured into by an administrator and you hearing what a real difference that made?

Carlos Moreno: First, thank you for sharing and lots of love to Dr. Gardner. In addition to being mentored and poured into, I always think about it in terms of how we’re being ministered to, not just as young people, but even as we continue in our journey as adults and as leaders. We don’t hear enough of those stories. They often happen in silos or they don’t happen enough. It was actually one of the things that led me to want to talk about finding your leadership soul and the upliftment of young people in this way with tremendous love, care, and a whole lot of vulnerability.

Shawnee Caruthers: I love that. We’re going to dig into that more because you brought up some pathways that you were able to go down. We’re going to talk about how that gave you permission to lean into something you couldn’t even see for yourself because you saw no examples of it. Thank you for that. Great job. Thanks for kicking it off for us. Before we dig in a little deeper, we have one more question for you all for now, but don’t rest on your laurels. There’ll be more.

Emotional Intelligence in Education

Shawnee Caruthers: Think about a time when emotional intelligence shaped your career or education. What did that moment teach you? Take a second to think about it, and if anyone wants to come to the mic and share, we would love that.

Carlos Moreno: That is called being voluntold.

Victoria Andrews: Exactly.

Shawnee Caruthers: So, my, I’m one of four and my sister’s here, and she can attest to this. My mom did not finish college, but the way she treated us was very emotionally intelligent and human-centered. She gave us mental health days back in the ’80s before it was even called a thing. She made sure that we took off for Martin Luther King Day before it was a federal holiday. Her emotional intelligence in how she treated us as unique individuals helped me to know that education and educators aren’t just in the classroom or a certain space; it’s people in your community. It even helps me as an administrator to make sure that parents and caregivers are empowered to know they have a place in education, even if they may not have had a formal education.

Shawnee Caruthers: Thank you, Victoria. If you know anything about Velma, she truly is a trailblazer. It’s a good reminder that everyone can be an educator. Everyone can influence the path you go down. It could be the bus driver, a parent, or whoever the case may be. Los, as you were in your leadership journey, even before you transitioned to Big Picture when you were still back in the classroom, who were those people who didn’t see themselves as educators but really helped students to find their path?

Carlos Moreno: The one person that immediately comes to mind always for me is who I refer to as my Bronx Angel. I’m a proud New Yorker, born and raised in the Bronx.

Victoria Andrews: Yes, so we’ve heard.

Carlos Moreno: All day, every day. Due to a number of circumstances and things that happened on my path as a teenager, I was definitely going down a path I should not have been. Cheryl Williams was a community organizer in the northwest section of the Bronx. She saw what I was into, which I had no business doing. She didn’t know me from anyone. She worked with a lot of young people and approached me one day and literally said, “Is your name Carlos?” She knew my name, though I had never met her. Just being seen in that way means she knew who I was.

Victoria Andrews: You’re kind of hard to miss.

Carlos Moreno: Fair. She said, “Hey, I heard you’re a good ball player. I heard you’re a smart kid. Would you like to be doing something else?” That’s all I needed at that moment, for someone to recognize I was on a dark path and needed another option. Sadly, it wasn’t presented to me by my school, where I spent so many hours a day. It took someone from my community to lift me up in that way. It’s what communities have been doing for so long, especially around communities of black and brown youth. We’ve been lifting each other up in these ways forever.

Shawnee Caruthers: I love that. We’ll hear more about Cheryl because you talk about her a lot in the book. You’re correct; we all have that nosy neighbor. For me, it was the lady across the street, Ms. Catherine.

Carlos Moreno: Oh, no doubt.

Shawnee Caruthers: She was like, “Why are you telling all of our business?” In hindsight, she was being a part of the community. She was a teacher, protecting us. We just don’t have that to the same level anymore. Sometimes you need someone to notice you, and kids do as well. That’s a great transition into the book.

Leadership Lessons and Personal Stories

Shawnee Caruthers: So Carlos, we are going to transition to chapter three. In the book is read aloud time. It’s, it’s read aloud time, read aloud time, read aloud time, circle time. Uh, Los, if you can read, um, the excerpt at the top of the quote by Dr.

Martin Luther King. And then we will pause for a second and just let that sit with us. And anyone who has a reaction to that, we ask that you get to the mic and share. Before I begin reading a, a moment of full vulnerability, I became a man. Uh, uh, uh, I’m sorry. I became a man of a certain age. I become a man of a certain age recently.

Carlos Moreno: And, and like I didn’t know I was gonna be reading from the text, he said, I wish I would’ve had my readers. I wish I had my readers, is what I said. I said, what are we doing to Shawnee? She, she laughed at me that I didn’t appreciate that. Um, so leading with love, care, and vulnerability, I said to my children, I’m going to work and do everything I can, everything I can do to see that you, you get a good education.

I don’t ever want you to forget that there are millions of God’s children who will not and cannot get a good education. And I don’t want you to feel that you are better than they are for you will never, for you will never be what you ought to be until they are what they ought to be. The good Reverend Dr.

Martin Luther King Jr. Okay, thank you. We’re just gonna pause for a second, and as people are thinking about, or reflecting and sharing in just a moment, why did you pick that one, that quote by Dr. Martin Luther? There’s so many. Why did that one resonate with you? Yeah, so I’ve always had an affinity and, and love and, and deep appreciation for the, the work and the leadership of Dr.

King. And there, there is a, what I believe, a spiritual thread throughout leadership soul. Mm-hmm. And, you know, oftentimes folks don’t want to intermingle. They’re like, oh, you, you, you’re diving into religion. I, I think culturally mm-hmm. Like where we come from, they are hand in hand. Mm-hmm. And we need to recognize where we come from in our histories.

And that one in particular was about community. Mm-hmm. Right. It is about not just the upliftment of one young person mm-hmm. Of one. One person, but about the community and for us to continue to lift each other up, support each other on this, in this journey.

Okay. I love that. Any reactions from out here?

Oh, please state your name, brother. You,

Yari Mercedes: you know, I have my tabs. Hey, y’all also a proud New

Yorker.

Yari Mercedes: I’m Jadi Mercedes. Also affinity to the BX, the Bronx. Shout out to Washington Heights. Um, this quote really resonated for this chapter because this is the chapter where you talk about your LCV approach, right?

Your love, care, and vulnerability. And what really struck me about, uh, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr’s words is good, right? Hmm. There are oftentimes in education where we define the currency of goodness.

Victoria Andrews: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yari Mercedes: Um, and that currency is rooted in whiteness and white supremacy and harmful and punitive practices.

Can you talk a little bit about how your approach imagines something different and redefines or defines for us what Dr. King is talking about in terms of his own children having a quality good education?

Carlos Moreno: Yeah. Thank you, Dr. Mercedes. Uh, of course, of course. Um,

I deeply, deeply believe that

in the humanity of the folks that have chosen to enter this profession. Um, and I believe that along our way, along the way, we have allowed and continue to allow the system to take us away from what our original calling was when we decided to work with on behalf and for young people. So. Again, the attempt in the, in the book was to get to the core and the source of what called us into work on behalf of these communities.

And you know, it’s, we often try, often try to parcel out right, the human side with technical, with like very, very specific content. Mm-hmm. Focused, you know, important, right. But very specific mm-hmm. Content areas, right. And understanding the importance of the threading of those things, right? Mm-hmm. But it always starts with the why and knowing who we’re serving and why we’re serving them.

Mm-hmm. Right. Recognizing the histories of the, of the, of the young people and the communities that we’re serving better understanding what are some of the hopes and dreams of those young people and not trying to immediately dissect and diagnose what it is that they don’t know. Right. And that’s the, that’s the challenge, right?

So if believe that if schools start taking a much more intentional, purposeful, and courageous, right? Which there’s not a, sadly not enough courage, I think, in this space and mm-hmm. And recognizing that we are, want to recognize we are in some really hard times right now, um, but courageous approaches to honoring and looking at young people as assets Mm.

And not really looking at them as kind of deficit laden mm-hmm. Like young people. Yeah. Yeah. I, and I think what you’re saying is there’s just a, a, a lack of shared responsibility, no doubt, when it comes to educators and leaders. So how do we cultivate that even more so that even with students, like how do we bring them into this collective action of what we’re trying to do out in the world so that their success isn’t just about them, but about their communities and how they want to uplift them.

Was that a question? Or you just, you want, how can you cultivate, huh? How, how we can we cultivate that sheer responsibility within the schools? Yes. Specifically within the right, within the schools specifically. Mm-hmm. Um, I often think a lot of this starts with leadership. Mm-hmm. So I’m, I’m gonna, I’m gonna call on the leaders in the space.

Right. I think, um, there is a, there is a gap that exists mm-hmm. In terms of the, the leadership that I talk about in, in leadership, soul mm-hmm. Around how we model what it is that we want, what it is that we would like and need our teachers and those that are working directly with and for young people mm-hmm.

And modeling that for them. Um, and I think it’s around, like, we’re, we’re constantly in a rush, right? Mm-hmm. And, and, and there’s something about, I, I talk about it a lot in the book at different parts around the importance of slowing down. Mm-hmm. Right? I mean, we’re talking about pacing calendars, we’re talking about staying on track.

Mm-hmm. Like, it’s just so the, for us to be able to better understand and know our young people, right? Mm-hmm. What are some of their hopes and their communities and their families? What are some of their hopes and dreams? What are the things as we talk about pathways, right? Yes. Right. And then as we talk about pathways, what are some of those things that they’re curious about?

Right. And, and be able to connect what we’re doing in schools with what’s happening in their communities. Mm-hmm. And what are some of the, so that they can also see pathways for themselves Yeah. Beyond their current circumstances and scenarios. Yeah. And when you say curious, what are they curious about?

Shawnee Caruthers: They just kind of remind me of my pet peeve. When you ask students like, what do you wanna be when you grow up? So what question do you ask young people that reframes that for them so that they can live into realizing what pathways could be possible? Oh yeah. My, my big picture, my big picture of families in the house, so they know how we, we, we usually don’t ask that question.

Carlos Moreno: Right? Right. We ask what are the things that you enjoy doing? Yeah. Right. What are those things that you spend your time, you know, when you’re not in school, what are those things that you’re curious about? Right. Um, what are those things that you’ve wondered about? Yeah. But also involving not just the students, but also.

Parents, guardians, other folks that know the young people really well. Mm-hmm. And given it gives us just a different insight into who the young people are. Yeah. And the only question I would add to that is what problem do you wanna solve? Always. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So, no, I love, that’s a great question. I love that reframing.

Shawnee Caruthers: So thinking about your experiences around leadership, and of course that’s what your ho book is about. What, um, leadership, so there have been lots of moments because you write many letters to the young people who have truly impacted how you view leadership. But what was like the one pivotal moment that really impacted your leadership experience or story or journey that made you just like, think I need to do something different?

Carlos Moreno: I would have to say, um, it was my, my relationship with Angel. Um, so a little, little bit of context. Mm-hmm. Uh, angel. Um, the real name is Andy in the book. He’s Angel. I have, I have permission to do that, but Angel is, was a young man also from New York City, who was the middle child of five boys. Mm-hmm. And he had two elderly parents.

Um, and it just so happened that his mother was from the same part of the Dominican Republic that my father was from. Mm-hmm. And they had relocated from New York to Providence, which is where I was. I started my teaching career and then where I was then a principal. Um, and immediately what I, what I, what I saw in Angel was a level of curiosity.

Um, like tremendous swagger. Like, like he brought that New York swag like on a thousand percent. Right. Um, and tremendous brilliance. Mm-hmm. Right. He was a, he was a, a, a great. Artists in a variety of ways, right. Spoken word. Mm-hmm. Visual arts. Um, he was a phenomenal, phenomenal with, with, with, uh, with various mediums.

And he had, he, like, he had some hustle to him too, right? Like you couldn’t, there was nothing that, that Angel didn’t know about. Right. He was like, I knew about everything. Right. And he had a new advisor, a new principal, a new teacher, and I was a first year principal. And what I knew about Angel was that he needed to be, needed to really have really powerful learning experiences.

So he, he had an internship at the Rhode Island School of Design, working with an architect. That was a really powerful experience that then that then ended formally ended. And then he was working with young, young children. Right. In an arts, in an arts course. Right. At, in an arts class. At a, at a local elementary school.

But then we also had heard, because you know, schools and young people always tell you he was, he was in the streets. Mm-hmm. He was hustling, angel was hustling, and he was, he was behaving differently in school. Mm-hmm. So one of the things that we tend to do is just, you know, we we’re not gonna just outright like suspend a young person.

Like he wasn’t doing anything super egregious. He was just like calling for attention. Mm-hmm. Being Angel. And one of the things that we did, right, because he had a new, new, new teacher that was really struggling with kind of like managing the classroom was like, okay, he can work outta my office. That’s not a problem.

Um, and he did that. He did that. He was great. Um, he’s somewhat, one of the things that we often should, we should do more of is oftentimes you put young people that you normally would not think of putting them in leadership positions. Mm-hmm. And they will shine. And that’s what he did often. Mm-hmm. So we would have countless visitors come to the school, be like, angel, why don’t you show these, these fine folks around?

Tell ’em about your experience. So I’m about the school. And he was just brilliant at it. Right. He loved it. He was very proud. Mm-hmm. Very proud. Um, long story short, then one day my laptop goes, goes missing. Mm-hmm. Um, and I’m like, what happened to my laptop? Right. This is before the cloud, so I’m dating myself right before the cloud.

Everything’s on the laptop. I think you dated yourself when you talked about your readers. Listen, everything’s on the laptop and you know, the school told mm-hmm. The school told on him. They’re like, yeah, angel took it right. Went to his house, have a good relationship with his mom. Was like, Hey. And she said, oh yeah, he wasn’t home.

And, and she said, yep, I saw a laptop here. It’s not here now. Um. Long story short again, he, he had, he had taken the laptop and sold it. Mm-hmm. Um, now that laptop outside of the physical, like, which is not, not, wasn’t really that important. Mm-hmm. That laptop, because this was pre-cloud, had a number of images of my daughter that was born at 24 weeks.

Mm-hmm. Um, so I had captured her entire journey in the, in the NICU life.

Victoria Andrews: Yeah.

Carlos Moreno: Um, and, and for me, I was just like, okay. When it, when I realized that I wasn’t gonna get the laptop back, what I, what I, all I really wanted from Angels is to say, Hey, Los, I’m sorry. My bad. I definitely took it and I sold it and he didn’t, and he didn’t do that.

Um, so I put him outta school.

Victoria Andrews: Mm-hmm.

Carlos Moreno: It’s the first and the only student I’ve ever, I’ve ever put out of the school. Wow. Um. And I had, I had, you know, I communicated with his family. I said, I will, you know, you should come in tomorrow. We’re gonna find an alternative placement for him. He can no longer be a part of this community.

Mm-hmm. Right. That’s what he’s gonna do for taking a laptop. Mm-hmm. Um, they never showed up mm-hmm. To have that conversation and I never followed up. Mm-hmm. I didn’t care to follow up at that point because I was angry.

Victoria Andrews: Mm-hmm.

Carlos Moreno: Um, and about a year later, he had been shot and killed sitting in a barbershop.

Mm-hmm. Now our schools, for those that don’t know about big picture schools are like, we’re all up in the student stuff. Yeah. Like, we know what’s happening with our young people Right. Inside, outside of school. Our connections to the families, to the community. Um, so, and I know that we would, as we had been, and as we’ve done for so many other young people who have been in similar situations and positions as, as Angel was.

We would’ve been able to continue to support him to navigate whatever it was that he was navigating. Yeah. Um, and what I did is I reacted quickly, harshly. Mm-hmm. Um, so for me, the big lesson that I took away from that, and it was why I, I, I really wanted to feature, you know, his story and, and I talk a lot about his, his gifts.

’cause they were, they were, there was, there were an abundance of gifts that he had is the importance of us not to react too harshly and think about our role as educators and as schools mm-hmm. In supporting young people to learn and grow, even in those hardest moments. Right. Despite where they come from.

Um, or what, what’s sometimes harder, hardest is what they may have done. Mm-hmm. Um, and there’s a level of forgiveness. Mm-hmm. Right. That I think sch like schools need to exercise on behalf of young people. Mm-hmm. So that’s, that’s the lesson I continue to carry with me.

Shawnee Caruthers: Well, that’s a heavy lesson. How does your heart feel when you reflect on that?

Carlos Moreno: Uh, I’m learning to, uh, I’m learning to forgive myself.

Victoria Andrews: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That’s a journey I’m learning to

Carlos Moreno: forgive myself. Yeah. And I think part of, part of that process is sharing that story. Mm-hmm. Right. Um, and trying to lead in ways that are a little, you know, are a little bit more graceful. Mm-hmm. I don’t know if I always do that with you.

Never. But yeah. A little more graceful. Never, never a little more graceful. Um, and, and, and operating and moving a little bit more slowly. Yeah. So I try to be, I try to not be quick to react and respond to things.

Shawnee Caruthers: Yeah. And that takes a level of emotional intelligence that we talked about at the beginning.

And we don’t always prioritize emotional intelligence until you have to learn it through a harder lesson. And so, e whether it’s for educators or for students, and so when we think about emotional intelligence in terms of like skills. How does, how do you believe that leading with like love and the care and vulnerability, the things that you learned from Angel and from the other, um, young people in the book, how do you believe that emotional intelligence is just as critical as technical skills for students who either are just trying to navigate high school or survived the workforce?

Like, how do we find that balance so that they don’t have to learn lessons maybe in the same way in which you did?

Carlos Moreno: Yeah. A thing about emotional intelligence that I think is, is I, I want to note, and I think it’s important to note, is it’s often talked about, about one understanding and knowing their own kind of emotions and how to manage those.

But it also talks about managing the emotions of other people. Mm-hmm. I’m not a fan of having, asking young people to manage the emotions of other people. Right. Like right off the bat. Mm-hmm. And I think schools do that. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. And us adults do that way too much asking young people to manage the emotions of US adults.

Yeah. So I just, I needed to say that about emotional intelligence. It’s a word. No doubt. Um,

Shawnee Caruthers: no diggity.

Carlos Moreno: Yeah, no. I consider right on this theme of pathways, consider this theme of pathways. Um, the ability to allow a young person to explore, learn, like not just with one or a, a clear and consistent subset of folks, but really expanding who folks, who young people have access to.

Mm-hmm. Right? And who has access to them and who has access to them. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Building Trust and Respect in Education

Carlos Moreno: Um, being able to have a space that allows them to process, which takes time. Mm-hmm. Right? Like, and, and trust. Mm-hmm. That needs to be developed, and that happens over time, right? Mm-hmm. So it’s not to say you can ask a young person, come in and tell me all your problems.

Let’s just, let’s process this. Why are you doing this? Mm-hmm. Like that takes time. Mm-hmm. Right. It takes time for adults and it takes time for young people to be able to do.

Shawnee Caruthers: Yeah. And I like that you said trust. I was in a session earlier and they were, it was for Ed policy. Mm-hmm. And they were talking about like, the tried and true isn’t trusted anymore and that we have to do more.

And so, you know, I think that there was an expectation that a student walks into a classroom, there’s a teacher and there’s immediate trust and that just doesn’t happen anymore. And res

Carlos Moreno: they talk about respect

Shawnee Caruthers: and respect, right? Students are demanding more as they should, and they’re owning their, their agency, et cetera.

And so as you think about love and care and, um, sorry, I lost my train of thought for a second. As you think about love and care and vulnerability.

Navigating Emotions and Vulnerability

Shawnee Caruthers: How then do we, because you say you’re not a fan of asking young people to manage those emotions. How then do we help them to navigate the spaces when they are asked to do that or when they are in a difficult position and we are not leading in the way that we should?

Like how, how do we help young people to navigate that? Does that make sense?

Carlos Moreno: I’m gonna ask you to reframe slightly. Okay. I, I, I got, I’ve got part of it, but Okay. Yeah.

Shawnee Caruthers: Yeah. You want me to reframe it? Um, yep. Absolutely. Okay. Okay. Just a little bit. Okay. Got it. Um, as we think about love, care, and vulnerability mm-hmm.

And we are not asking young people to manage the emotions of others, but yet they are expected to, and that is a weight that’s constantly put on them, but they don’t know how to handle it. Mm-hmm. And so they may react in a way, maybe like Angel did, and he doesn’t, and sometimes they just don’t have a clear outlet of where to go.

So how do we help students to navigate those emotions when they’re placed upon them and they shouldn’t be? Does that make sense? That’s, yeah. I

Carlos Moreno: appreciate it. Okay. Thank you. I’m, I can be a slow burn sometimes. Yeah.

Carlos Moreno: Um, I, again, I think it is around, I believe that the more conventional structures that exist around schools do not all aren’t set up to be able to support young people in that way.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria Andrews: Right?

Carlos Moreno: Mm-hmm. So, and it, it’s difficult, right? Yeah. And we, and we have seen instances where you have a masterful teacher that in his, her or their classroom is able to do that, makes deep connections with young people mm-hmm. Centers the young people’s lived experiences in some ways. Mm-hmm. And then is able to have the conversations and make space and time mm-hmm.

For the necessary conversations around what’s happening. Mm-hmm. I, when, when I talk about not managing others, especially the emotions of adults mm-hmm. I think it is unfair mm-hmm. To, to ask a young person to, when, when, when we are bothered or we’re in a place. Right. I think it’s okay for us to have a conversation and say, Hey.

It is a bit of the restorative approach, right? Mm-hmm. It’s just like, Hey, this is how your actions, this is how I felt around this, but not to always, and also for us as adults to be able to own our mistakes Correct. To our young people. Mm-hmm. So I think the modeling that happens in those, in those instances, yeah.

Is super critical.

Shawnee Caruthers: Yeah. No, that’s really key. And so, as I was thinking about what de said earlier about the pathways and then thinking about what you said about trust, how, ’cause Rita Pearson said that children can’t learn from people they don’t like. So how then do we build that trust so that students can get to being able to hear the things that they can’t see, but have already imagined for themselves?

Carlos Moreno: Yeah. I think in terms of the press, the, the, the precedent around love, care, and vulnerability mm-hmm. I think those things and how we show up for young people and demonstrate, um, our commitment to them mm-hmm. Right. Is really in a lot of ways, and again. I think it’s taking a genuine, genuine concern for who they are mm-hmm.

For their communities. Um, and, and when, as much as we can, not just what they’re able to do and how, how they’re able to perform inside of schools, but what they’re engaged with outside of school. Mm-hmm. So really expanding. Again, there’s, this is a very, this is a very big picture focused response in this way.

Mm-hmm. It’s around us being able to support our young people and wanting to support them beyond what, within our school walls. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Be fully engaged with them in ways that really transcend. Like what we’ve seen historically with schools,

Shawnee Caruthers: essentially what Cheryl was for you. Um, and so like kind of a mentor of some sort, saw you just kind of in different spaces mm-hmm.

And noticed.

The Role of Mentorship in Education

Shawnee Caruthers: And so as you think about that mentorship, because you were a mentor for the young people and the educators in your school, and then for other people throughout the educational landscape, what advice would you give to educators and leaders who want to be the kind of mentor for students that you are, but don’t know where to start?

They want

Carlos Moreno: to be mentored to,

Shawnee Caruthers: to students or other educators, um, but just don’t know what that looks like or how to start, besides read your book plug.

Carlos Moreno: Yeah. Um, I’d ar I’d argue that all of us at some point, whether it’s in the more formal setting or informal setting or in our communities have been mentored by someone, right?

Mm-hmm. We, we can, we can reflect back and think to, I. Those instances and those individuals who have, and sometimes they might be family members mm-hmm. But you know, sometimes, and oftentimes they’re not. Mm-hmm. Um, who have taken that genuine concern for us. Mm-hmm. Um, I think mentorship isn’t, is not, i’s not about having the answers.

Mm-hmm. Right. Oftentimes think people, people believe that mentorship or even leadership means you have to have all the answers. Mm-hmm. It’s about also being able to say, I actually don’t know.

Victoria Andrews: Mm-hmm.

Carlos Moreno: And I would love to let, like, let’s figure this out together.

Victoria Andrews: Mm-hmm.

Carlos Moreno: Um, and the power of what that does for a young person is critical, but again, I go back to what I said shared earlier mm-hmm.

Is around the importance of leaders modeling that for others. Mm-hmm. Right. Folks in leadership positions. Um, how to mentor is, I think it’s grounded in just the genuine care for others. Mm-hmm. Right. Um.

Shawnee Caruthers: But some people you hear that and some people are like, oh, I know how to care for others, but they don’t really know how to care for others.

So I just, can you break that down a little

Carlos Moreno: bit? Well, that’s a, that, I mean, I think that’s a starting point, right? Mm-hmm. Like if you’re able to admit and say, I don’t know how to care for, it’s just, it’s around how you decide to show up. Like, the way I show up for you may be very, it’s definitely different than the way you show up for me.

Like, let’s just, let’s name that,

Shawnee Caruthers: say more.

Carlos Moreno: Yeah. We’re not gonna do that. Um, but no, but, but, but there is that genuine care. Yeah. Right? Like they’re checking in on one mm-hmm. On one another. Right. Just being say, Hey, you good? Mm-hmm. How’s, how’s this? Yeah. How’s what you’re seeing now in the media affecting you?

Like, what’s going on? Yeah. Um, I. I don’t know if there’s a full, like, clear blueprint to say, Hey, this is how you care for folks, right? Mm-hmm. So, ’cause oftentimes, what, what I talk about in, in, in leadership soul is just like the importance of how the adults, right? Mm-hmm. If, if you have committed and accepted the responsibility to work on behalf of young people mm-hmm.

I believe deeply that that means you have to care about them beyond just how they’re able to perform. You can screw you, can you, you can let that be on prayer love. But I, I know, I know what you’re saying. I know. And that’s why, and that’s, that’s the work, right? Mm-hmm. And that’s why the work continues.

Yeah. I’ll, I’ll also go further and say that if you love the idea of teaching X content area more than you love, and my sister, Dr. Mercedes has heard this before, if you love the idea. Teaching X content more than you love the idea of working with young people. You should not be in the profession.

Shawnee Caruthers: Amen. I think people agree.

I I heard that. I heard

Victoria Andrews: that. I heard that.

Shawnee Caruthers: Well, and we’re gonna kind of jump around because I want to get to this, but it automatically triggered the poem, um, live Your Crete by Langston Hughes. And so I’m just gonna share that with you without my readers and just kind of,

it’s none personal. This is all the time. This is all the time. Literally all the time. So, so maybe you do show more care, but, uh, so, and then I’ll just ask you to react to it because what you’re saying really resonated. And I think Langston Hughes obviously understood that a long time ago, but I really love the word.

So, um, this is Olivia Creed by Langston Hughes that said I’d rather see a sermon than to hear one any day. I’d rather one walk with me than just to show the way. The eye is a better pupil and more willing than the he. Advice may be misleading, but examples are always clear and the very best of teachers are the ones who live their creed.

For to see good put into action is what everybody needs. Hmm. I consume, learn to do it. If you let me see it done, I can watch your hand in motion, but your tongue too fast may run and the lectures you deliver may be very fine and true, but I’d rather get my lesson by observing what you do for, I may misunderstand you and the fine advice you give, but there’s no misunderstanding how you act and how you live.

Carlos Moreno: Thoughts. Um, thank you for sharing that. I hadn’t, I hadn’t come across that piece from Brother Langston. Yeah. It’s powerful. Two, two thoughts on it. One I’ve often told, and as a, as a, as a school leader, as a, you know, as specifically as a school leader, always, um, really communicated to my team, the, the, that our young people are always watching us.

Yeah. Right. Um, our actions are words. Um, and even when we think that they’re now watching us. So it’s one of the things that I think that, that definitely brings to the light. And a, one of my colleagues, uh, Jennifer Du gave me a quote one time that, that has stuck with me, uh, by the late great Dr. Maya Angelou.

Mm-hmm. Um, which is people will. Forget what you did. Mm-hmm. People will forget what you said. Mm-hmm. But people will never forget how you made them feel. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think Brother, brother Langston in this piece is reminding us about the importance, again, talking about the humanity of this work.

Yeah. Right. Um, the kindness that’s necessary and kindness in humanity is also not absent of truth. Right. So when we say this, it’s not about not being truthful or honest with young people. Mm-hmm. It’s also about our delivery. Right? Yeah. Our timing around certain things. Yeah. Um, and the purpose on how and why we say certain things and act, um, with young people.

Shawnee Caruthers: Yeah. And so what, I mean, essentially what you said, it’s leadership. So essentially it’s just not something you talk about, but like you said, how you live. And so I. And this is for anyone as well, but I’ll start with Los. But as you all resonate, if the, if this question resonates with you all, I ask that you get up and answer as well.

Living by Your Values as a Leader

Shawnee Caruthers: But what’s the moment in your journey where you had to make a difficult choice as a leader between just saying the right thing and truly living by your values, and how do we teach students to do the same?

Carlos Moreno: Ooh.

Now I also invite others Yeah. To answer in this question.

Carlos Moreno: I feel like there have been a number of those instances, and I’m trying to, I’m trying to think of the, of, of a very specific one. Yeah, no problem. Um,

does anyone have an example? Okay, go ahead sis. Hmm.

Shawnee Caruthers: Uh, just I’ll say the question one more time. Yeah. What’s one moment in your journey? I. Where you had to make a difficult choice between just saying the right thing and truly living by your values. To me, leadership is very important. I’m Felicia James. I’m from the Houston area. Yes. Um, led a huge campus, 2,500 kids and had to make some tough, tough decisions that I knew I wasn’t gonna compromise my integrity because I knew I had about 3000 people watching me.

Audience Member: Mm-hmm. And so my quote that I really live by, if I sneeze, we all catch a cold. Say it again, Seth. If I sneeze, we all gonna catch a cold. Mm-hmm. And so what that mean is, is how I respond to things and how I carry myself. Everyone’s gonna be watching from the custodial staff all the way up to the top, my associate principal and everybody in between my kids.

So some tough things that I had to make was always put my kids first. I walk my walk, I talk my talk. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so sometimes they could cause ripples. Where you are in the ISD that may not really align, or when you get too much shine or they can’t handle that. Mm-hmm. It’s gonna cause some ripples.

Prime example, we had this famous, famous rapper come, didn’t know who he was because I’m not young. Mm-hmm. But it was NLE Chapel. I didn’t know, but I was getting into, I was just, oh, we gonna have this. Yeah. Yes. And it caused a ripple effect because of the attention we got. Mm-hmm. Nothing occurred. And the question asked to me was, will I have done it all over again?

Mm-hmm. I took the writeup on the hand because I said, I if I’m gonna put my kids first, if I knew that this made an impact. Because to me, high school, we are not gonna remember what we made on a AP exam. We’re not gonna remember what we made on that final exam. But what we remember is my members and how my principal made me feel, the hoops that she jumped through to get me these experiences.

Mm-hmm. And so I’ll take a hand slap any day to put my kids first. Yeah. And so I took it. And he asked the question of me, if you had to do it all over again, what would you do? I said the same thing, standing on business because you not in the arena with me. Mm-hmm. So therefore you can’t make the decisions for me.

Audience Member: Yeah. It’s an afterthought. So I took the hand snap and it was funny ’cause now graduation company, this was a recent story and the vale, Victorian put that in her speech. Okay. Of course she did. And so, yeah. And so then one of my aps was like, take that out, put it back in. Yep. Put it back in. And then while she was giving her speech, I looked at everyone face.

Mm-hmm. The ones who looked like me. It was like, oh yeah, let her say that. Oh, they let her do that. This me? Yes. We going out with a bang. Mm-hmm. 24. We out the door. Mm-hmm. Alright. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you Felicia, for sharing.

Shawnee Caruthers: Follow that los

Carlos Moreno: Nope, there is no following that. Yeah. True. Um, one, one of the things that I, I, I, I will share that’s somewhat connected to, to your question, Shawnee. Okay. Is, um, I feel like I’m, I’ve been incredibly blessed since I’ve made the, the transition from working in, you know, first for-profit sector, then international nonprofit work.

Victoria Andrews: Mm-hmm. To my first education experience mm-hmm. Was within the big picture network. Mm-hmm. Um, and prior to that, the forms of leadership that I had seen were ones that were very prideful, that were very, you know, um, performative mm-hmm. In a lot of ways around like having all the answers. Mm-hmm. Very, um, very just kind of laced with, you know, um, I.

Carlos Moreno: I don’t wanna call it strength, but like, you know, like what, what folks would, you know, I, I consider strength. Mm-hmm. Um, and tremendous volume. Mm-hmm. Right. And my first principal, Nancy Diaz, um, was a, is a brilliant leader. Mm-hmm. And what she modeled was tremendous intelligence, passion and absolutely vulnerability in those moments.

Mm-hmm. Where she wasn’t trying to be performative and oftentimes called on the rest of the staff to say, I actually, I need your help with this. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Um, and have those moments where she would lean on us and, you know, to, to, to support her mm-hmm. In making pretty significant dec pretty significant decisions on behalf of the school and, and, and the community.

And it was such a pivot early on for me, again, as a first year teacher to start seeing that.

Victoria Andrews: Mm-hmm.

Carlos Moreno: Um, that I’ve tried, I’ve tried to carry that through. Yeah. Through, um, that does not mean I haven’t had those moments. I’m sure my, my, my team will probably be like, remember when you said this and did I, because I’m sure I’ve had those moments, but it’s again, when I talk about continuingly trying to find my leadership soul

Victoria Andrews: mm-hmm.

Carlos Moreno: This is, that’s, it’s that work. It’s remembering that, it’s remembering that we have tremendously talented folks mm-hmm. Um, that care deeply and that our leaders within their own context, like, within like broad contexts. So

Shawnee Caruthers: I’m gonna let you have the last word in a minute, but I also wanna make room for any questions.

So we’ll pause for just a moment ’cause we have about 10 or so minutes left in the session. But does anyone in the audience have any questions?

Okay. Josh, come up to the mic. Thank you Josh. Rapoon everyone.

The Importance of Relationships in Schools

Audience Member: Josh Rapoon, host of the What School Could Be podcast. The episode that I just released was with two principals in Rhode Island. Hmm. And the question has to do with relationships. And one of the questions that I built for the, one of the principles, ’cause I did them in the same episode, had to do with actually the state motto of Rhode Island, which is Hope.

Mm-hmm. Which is one word. Mm-hmm. And so what I did was I built a question around the idea that relationships are actually the font of hope. And I, I wonder that we don’t get hope in our schools because we aren’t asking our kids to build relationships with each other. Mm-hmm. We are too busy delivering chemistry or history or biology.

So it’s kind of what you talked about a little bit earlier. I wonder if you could riff on that.

Carlos Moreno: Yeah. Thank you, Joshua. I mean, for us, the underpinning of, of a lot of what we do and all that we do is focused around relationships. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and those relationships, of course, between young people and, you know, between them, but also between the adults mm-hmm.

And the young people. Um, and as I shared earlier, they’re always watching us, so also watching how we engage with each other as adults within, you know, on behalf of them as well. Um, I just think there’s a, a tension that continues to exist Right. In terms of how schools are structured. Right. To be able to do that and do that in deep, in meaningful ways.

Right. Again, you can do that in a, within a context of a class. Right. And in a and in some of your more progressive spaces, you can do that across a grade level. Mm-hmm. Right. And then in, depending on the size of your school, you can scale that out. Again, I think oftentimes we’re just trying to get to rush through content to the content, right?

And not spend the time building that foundation around the relationships, connecting it and ensuring young people see the relevance and what it is that they’re learning and doing to the things that they’re interested and curious about. And then we can totally dive in and talk about rigor, right? But when you have those two pieces, if you go with relationships and you build into the relevance, you’ll absolutely get to rigor.

Thank you, Josh. Any other questions? Okay. Go ahead. Come on up to the mic, please.

Shawnee Caruthers: Can I,

no, they’re recording, so we ha I know,

Shawnee Caruthers: I,

I love to see it. She’s like, how do I get there? It’s like the price is right. You’re

Audience Member: up.

Counseling and Mentoring Educators

Audience Member: And what you’ve shared, how would you take that same advice to counsel someone out of education? They have a heart for students, but based on what you’ve shared, they need to be able to be a successful resource to students. They’re not demonstrating that. So how would you, how would you coach them out? Uh, honestly and directly within the legal parameters that, of course that we need to follow within the systems that we’re in, right?

Carlos Moreno: Mm-hmm. I think sadly, a lot of it is, is grounded and, and necessitates documentation. And sometimes we as leaders don’t necessarily do the due, the due diligence. Mm-hmm. That’s necessary to do that. And I recognize, and there’s some tremendous school leaders in this space that have been doing this for a very long time and successfully.

So I also welcome them to kind of comment on this. But, um. The details in doing that is, are really, really important. And then I’ll also, I also wonder about when we’re onboarding staff and faculty, right? What are we onboarding for? Um, what are we doing When we talk about those, when I mention about those relationships and those connections that we’re building with, we’re asking our teachers to build with young people.

How are we doing that with those that we’re leading and supporting so that we can have really honest conversations and they understand. And I get, and I get that it’s not always super clean and easy, um, but because it’s not super clean and easy, I think it is not a reason to not make sure that we’re following through on the details to be able to do that effectively.

And it’s, and it, and it, I think, asks, it begs the, the larger question, right? Like I know often folks will counsel out and say, Hey, I need them out of my school ’cause they’re not good for kids in my school. Are they good for kids in general beyond the possession? So is it no school? So I often see it as a larger responsibility in calling and I’m like, you, there’s a difference between you’re not a fit for here, right?

If you’re not a fit for kids

anywhere. Yeah.

Carlos Moreno: Like you need to do the due diligence and however long that takes so that they are not in front of young people. Yeah. And I know it’s not easy

Audience Member: and I would just use myself as an example. Um, someone who came into education that really loved their educational experience and realizing that I was always a good teacher, but not a great teacher.

And being able to have a conversation with different leaders in the district to figure out how to leverage my skills. Mm. Um. And my background was special education, so there was always a need. And I’m like, I don’t really feel like I got the skills that I needed to be able to be the teacher that I wanted to be, but I was able to do enough to do well on a performance review, but still felt like there were things that were missing that I wasn’t able to accomplish in the classroom.

So being able to have a good mentor and let me realize that I could leverage my skills in other ways in the district, whether it was mentoring or working other departments within a district where I can still support students systematically. I would just encourage us to keep creating these spaces so that educators can talk to others to think about ways that you can leverage your skills if the classroom is not your forte.

Alright, yeah. Thank you.

Carlos Moreno: Appreciate you. Thank you

Audience Member: Dr.

Gerald. Hi, Dr. Shameika. Ro. Long time listener. First time caller. Um, thanks for being here and reading Leadership Soul, finding Your Leadership Soul. If you don’t have a copy, buy one by two and then give one to a friend or see Shameika in her room and she can hand you one or see me after this.

I have them in my bag. Um. It reminds me so much of the works of black feminist writers. Mm-hmm. And you call it out specifically. Mm-hmm. So I want to ask the question. We have, uh, lots of examples of black women leaders in schools who are willing to stand on business to toes downs for young people. We are the blueprint.

So how do we encourage others, much like yourself to listen to the work or watch the work that we’ve done as the blueprint to change the system to teach to young people? Thanks.

Carlos Moreno: Thank you Dr. Gerald. Thank you, Dr. Gerald. Um, no, I, I directly thank you for naming that I directly cite the work of, of some phenomenal black feminist leaders, um, many of them who are in this room, in this space doing tremendous work.

Um, that, that I deeply, I deeply honor and respect and what I’ve loved to, I’ve loved what I’ve seen a lot more of. Is the amplification of, of those voices and those leaders, those tremendous leaders like y’all not waiting for someone else to amplify it for you. Right. And then also calling, calling for, you know, those of us that mm-hmm.

Deeply respect and believe in it to be those amplifiers of those voices. Um, I, again, I don’t know if there’s a, a clear formula for, for that to happen, but I think the rest of us in the space need to acknowledge and recognize that and then start making the space and inviting those voices, um, into spaces that often y’all are not invited to.

Victoria Andrews: Mm-hmm.

Carlos Moreno: Um, hence it is, no, it’s not by accident that the overwhelming majority of the. Speakers at Leadership Journeys have been black women.

Victoria Andrews: Mm-hmm.

Carlos Moreno: Right? Um, that is by design. Um, and it’ll continue to be by design.

Shawnee Caruthers: Hugh, shout out to all the dope black women in this space and beyond. I see y’all. I’ve seen your words.

Steph, Victoria Shameika. We got award winners. Like these women are dope. So shout out to all of them. Y’all are okay. Um,

Shawnee Caruthers: know y’all dope too, gosh, if you need it. Um, but just as we finish out, we just have like a couple of minutes left. Um, I’m trying to think of what’s the closing question I wanna ask because I was thinking about what Josh was saying and then also thinking about, um, what’s an action that you feel like people should take?

So I’ll kind of ask it twofold. What is one action you think that the people in this room and beyond should take to really lean into love, care, and vulnerability? Vulnerability in order for students to really realize their true pathways in life and what could school be if we lean more into love, care, and vulnerability to help students get to that point of realizing their pathways.

Closing Thoughts and Future Actions

Carlos Moreno: Okay. Um, thank you, Shawnee. You welcome the conversation because I’m not gonna get a chance to do that. Um, do this at the end. Of course. Um, one of the things I intentionally chose to close out the book with the, a letter to Bella, right? Mm-hmm. So there, there’s something about the aunt, aunt and Bella’s, my daughter, right?

Mm-hmm. And it was a letter to her, but for me, she, she was more than just my daughter. Mm-hmm. Right? She was a, she was a representation mm-hmm. Of this gen next generation, right? Mm-hmm. This generation that’s up, right, right now, and they’re not asking for. Permission to be invited. Right. They’re just coming.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria Andrews: Right. Just coming. Yes. They’re just

Carlos Moreno: here. And I, and I love everything we’re here about how they move. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and it just brings me incredible hope, um, in terms of what’s possible for us and for this sector. Um, I think it’s important that we often think about how we, we, we want to honor and recognize the accomplishments of young people.

Mm-hmm. Really publicly. Yeah. Right. And I dare I say beautifully, right? Mm-hmm. Um, where they feel celebrated, seen and honored. Mm-hmm. Um, and again, I, I, I, I think it’s just, it’s like depending on, like, regardless of where you sit. And kind of that continuum of education, whether you are directly in a classroom working with young people, or you’re leading a school or system, the cascading effects of how we interact and interface with one another is super important.

Victoria Andrews: Mm-hmm.

Carlos Moreno: Um, so it’s hard to continue to tell someone how you want them to be if you’re not, if you’re not actively modeling how you want them to be.

Victoria Andrews: Yeah.

Carlos Moreno: So for me, that’s the biggest takeaway is think about like, remember about the humanity and what called you into this work. Consider that our interactions and how we engage with one another.

Mm-hmm. Like, we’re often in a rush and things are super transactional right now, right? Mm-hmm. And often are, um, taking a beat is super important mm-hmm. In this work. Building coalitions and working with one another in this space and finding your people as we, as we work through it.

Shawnee Caruthers: Okay, well thank you Los for this conversation.

Thank you all. And if you haven’t signed up for Leadership Journeys tonight, that starts at seven featuring our own Dr. Shamika Drew and others who will be phenomenal. If you wanna see women highlighted in an amazing way, just surround Chris Jackson who left so that he couldn’t be surrounded, but sign up through the um, south by app and come out and have a great time.

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Guest Bio

Carlos Moreno

A proud native New Yorker, Carlos Moreno is a passionate education trailblazer committed to supporting school and district leaders in creating high-quality, innovative schools designed to tackle systemic equity issues.

Carlos currently serves as Co-Executive Director for Big Picture Learning, a nonprofit organization that has developed more than 200 such schools in the United States and around the world. He also co-founded and leads the Deeper Learning Equity Fellowship in partnership with the Internationals Network for Public Schools as well as the newly created Ashé Leaders Fellowship; and is also the founder and co-producer of the highly acclaimed Leadership Journeys storytelling initiative; which has featured inspirational figures such as Christopher Emdin, Dena Simmons, Kaya Henderson, Nancy Gutierrez, Meisha Porter, Bettina Love, and many more. Carlos holds undergraduate degrees in marketing and business and a Masters Degree in educational leadership.
But those are merely Carlos’ representatives.

At heart, Carlos is an observer, a family man, a learner, a builder of community, a student, and a teacher—someone who has simultaneously found and continues to seek his own leadership soul.