EduCatered: Dr. Tequilla Brownie

Hey, come on in. Welcome to Educator, a podcast that’s catered to educators. I’m your host, Shani, and getting smart food, education, and innovation are at the heart of our recipe. This podcast mixes it all together to get to know teachers that are doing the work and making a difference. We start with the appetizer. What makes these educators unique? Then to the main course, stories and experiences that have helped to shape their practice. Finally, dessert, some

tips for what you can do next, creating a future of learning that works for everyone. Let’s dig in. Hey there, I’m Shani, and today I’m thrilled to be joined by Dr. Takula Brownie. While we try to have educators on this podcast, the work of Takula and her organization was just too important to pass up. Takula is the recently appointed CEO of the new teacher project, or TNTP for all you cool cats and kittens, in organizations that seeking to end the injustice of educational

inequality by providing excellent teachers to the students who need them most, and by advancing policies and practices that ensure effective teaching in every classroom. Takula will be leading the session at South by Southwest EDU on March 8th, 2022, on disrupting racial inequities in K-12 schools, and much of the story of racial inequity is also Takula’s story. Takula, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you, thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely. We are ready

to eat. Are you ready to eat? I am. I am. And getting smart, we love a whole lot of stuff, but the thing we love the most is food. So Takula, if you were to contribute a recipe to a cookbook, what would it be? I would have to say, from the South, I would have to say a five-flavored pound cake, which is basically just your regular cream cheese pound cake, but you add five flavors of different extract, and it was the first cake from scratch that I ever baked. Nice, five flavors.

It reminds me of education, reminds me of just people who are made up of all different things, and we’re not just one thing. So speaking of not being more than one thing, what is your diversity? Yeah, so I identify as a Black woman from the South who grew up extremely poor. That’s sort of, I would say, my personal diversity. And from a professional standpoint, I am an educator and a leader, but I also am a social worker. By training, I worked for years as a

school social worker and then moved into, you know, central office and leadership and more policy areas. Because of my social work background, I would say I have an affinity for thinking of things in terms of relationships and systems and the interconnectedness across those systems, both at the micro and macro level, because as we know, everything influences the next thing. And so that’s sort of how I’m oriented to the world.

And so how do you set systems thinking to really move agenda, move these educational agenda forward? Yeah, so I would say, I mean, we know that students aren’t, students don’t live within their classrooms. I mean, what happens to them is in their classrooms, it’s critically important, and it actually sets the trajectory for their lives, but students actually live in communities. And so when I think about the system of education and the systems of communities,

there’s an intersection and an interconnectedness for me that I’ve always known and understood was there. And so when I think about how we should be disrupting racial inequities, we have to take the context of what’s happening within both of those systems to really understand how to drive change. Yeah, community is vital to a student’s success. So how does fostering, belonging contribute to your practice? I mean, I would say a couple of ways, you know, there’s a

lot of research now about psychological safety. And for me, psychological safety starts with high expectations. And we see that playing out, unfortunately, where far too many students are the victim, I would say, of adult choices of low expectations. And so it ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy. We’ve seen it where, you know, unfortunately, there are some communities where we’ve, nationally, where we’ve surveyed teachers and asked them about, you know, do you

believe in high standards and high expectations for students? And the majority of them will say, yes. But then when you ask, okay, do you believe that your students can achieve to those high standards, that number drops significantly, which tells us that there is a problem between our stated values as educators, but then what our actions are actually playing out and the choices we’re making on behalf of students. And so when I think about fostering a sense of belonging,

it first starts with high expectations for that person that you’re thinking about helping be it as my, you know, former experience as a school social worker, and also obviously, as an educator, you have to make sure that children feel the expectations and your words and your actions, and then therefore all of your practices and actions are aligned to that. So how do you get students to get that feeling or those feelings without making them feel less than our

ostracize? How do you do that? You know, what’s interesting, like when I’ve taught, when we, when we did this research and, you know, looking at that, we tried to understand why teachers and educators sometimes are making that choice. And what I’ve heard a lot from educators is they’re well intended. They think that, oh, if I make my lessons in my, you know, in material more accessible to students who are behind, then I’m doing them a service because I’m making it more accessible.

But the truth of the matter is that you’re actually in practice, you’re dumbing down the work when the research is clear. When we set high expectations for students, they will achieve to those high expectations. But if we never give them the opportunity or the at-bats to actually do high level work and live into high expectations, then of course it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy and they won’t succeed. And that’s why I think we have the outcomes that we do that we are delivering

millions of students right back into the hands of poverty in which they were born into. Now, you were a former social worker, so you know the challenges that students go through. And so you know what they’re dealing with at home. And so when they come to school, sometimes the last thing teachers want to do is make their life harder by making things more rigorous or that’s what’s perceived. So how do you help teachers to find that balance of setting

those high expectations and not quote unquote, dominant down, but also being very sensitive to the things that are going on outside of school? So first of all, as a social worker, won’t surprise you when I say that kids are resilient. And so many times we underestimate what they actually can do and therefore thrive. And so we end up recreating environments in schools that actually don’t set them up for success. So what happens, I mean we as a system take kids

through, you know, the first 18 years right of their lives, they spend in, you know, some sort of pre-K12 experience and program. And then when they leave, they’re not set up for success beyond that. And so for me, both my lived experience as well as my professional experience has shown me that we’re actually doing a major disservice to students in part because of this notion of lowered expectations. But it’s also, I think, in part because we don’t help students connect to

what their K12 experience means after K12. And for me, one of the opportunities there is to make a more explicit connection between education and economic mobility. I think about Maslow a lot as a social worker. And we have this lofty ideal, ideal sometimes that, you know, kids will be motivated by education for education’s sake. And that was not my lived experience. And that frankly is not the experience of a lot of students that I encounter. I grew up in

really extreme poverty. I grew up in a house that didn’t have indoor plumbing growing up. And so when people would meet me and ask me, oh my gosh, man, and they find out that I went to an Ivy League college undergrad, they say, oh my god, how did you make it from an outhouse to the Ivy League? And for me, the answer to that is clear. Adults did not see me and see my beginnings and set lowered expectations for me. And then my own motivations, it wasn’t some lofty, oh, I’m just

so passionate about education. It was I knew, and my grandparents knew, education was a means to an end, meaning an end of poverty for my life and that of my own children. Well, it sounded like you were surrounded by a growth mindset kind of culture. And you were able, you’re able to help people rethink what education looks like even through your own story. What is something that you’ve changed your mind about recently? So it’s interesting. I always ascribe to, I would say,

sort of this notion of the path for kids is college and career readiness. So I would push, obviously as a leader, a policymaker, as an educator, and just as a mentor in my own community, I would push kids on that path, seeing it as the one pathway for economic mobility. In actuality, what we’ve seen is that there is no one pathway when we look at the jobs that are available now and the jobs of the future. We’re seeing industry work really hard to try and make

up for the fact that our K-12 system is delivering students that frankly aren’t ready for college or career. One of the things that I’ve changed my mind on recently is that very notion. And so I no longer subscribe to only one pathway, meaning a four-year college as the one pathway for economic mobility for students. I now am really focused on helping students be more connected in the K-12 space to career connected learning, which means that when they leave their K-12 experience,

should their choice be college? Absolutely. We want them to be successful, but it’s also the reality of our economy and of the industry now. There are other pathways to help students be set up for success. And I believe that we should be exploring those pathways in a very explicit way. And that’s something that’s newer thinking for me and one of the ways that I am leading TNTP into the future. Now let’s do a public service announcement to parents for just for a second

based on what you said because I mean you’re correct that everyone thinks there’s one pathway, that college and career, and you’ve changed your mind about it. How do you get parents to change their mind about it? Because like you said college is great, but that’s not everyone’s path. So if you were given a PSA to parents, what would you say? I would say two things. One is understand what motivates and what interests your child. First of all, don’t leave it to chance that someone else

is going to do that. And so once you are armed with the information of what your own child’s interests and passions are, be very engaged in making sure that their K-12 experience is connecting to that in a very defined way where this goal of economic mobility is actually what you and your child have your eye on from the start. That’s your North Star because we know that kids born into poverty are more likely to go back to poverty. And so for parents, if we, I know the, for myself

as a parent and all of the parents that I talk to, they want better for their kids. And so that means we have to be much, much more direct and explicit in connecting that K-12 experience to economic and social mobility. That means kids have to be prepared for jobs of now and jobs of the future. Yeah, absolutely. You are definitely one voice in the community that people should listen to, but who are the voices that you’re listening to? What is one voice or two voices in your community

that you would recommend other educators check out? Yeah, from my own community, I live in rural Arkansas, but just outside of Memphis, Tennessee, and one of my own role models is a former teacher, former school board member and who now works in philanthropy, Tamika Hart. She’s one that I see her as very adept at seeing the bigger picture and seeing the interconnectedness across systems. Her own experience growing up in the inner city

in Memphis, I think has set her up to have an understanding about truly what education can be in changing the trajectory of lives for kids. Her work now in her organization, Blue Meridian, is focused on just that, transforming the life trajectories of young people and young families who are trapped in poverty. And for me, that translates to economic and social mobility. So I’ve learned a lot from her and her organization.

Absolutely. How can educators get involved with the new teacher project? Yeah, so we several ways. So we work directly with school systems, districts, schools all across the country to help educators themselves grapple with and improve in the practices that they’re actually leveraging on behalf of students. We also train teachers. So if there are folks in your community, as we all know, our districts and schools are really struggling

right now with the teacher shortage, I am a firm believer that effective teachers are diverse teachers and are not afraid to work with children from black and brown communities and from impoverished backgrounds. And so there is an opportunity for us to leverage members of our community to help solve the teacher shortage problem. So that’s one way that I think current teachers can help other prospective teachers get involved. And then the other way I would say we

have our website, TNTP.org, we’ll love to hear from educators, teachers who have ideas and suggestions on things that our organization can do to better support teachers, principals, leaders, etc. at making sure that we are in fact disrupting this generational poverty that our current system, unfortunately, has been delivering too many students back into. And to cool us, we close out and like we say, you know, we talk to a lot of educators through this podcast and you alluded

to that everyone’s struggling right now. This has been a difficult time for the education system. What encouraging words can you say to educators so that they, you know, know that they’re not alone and they should just keep going? I would say two things. I mean, it’s nothing new. Teachers know I knew as a school social worker how important my job was to help students. Though right now, things are more challenging than ever, right? We understand all of the academic

the academic losses that students have experienced, the unfinished learning, we understand the social emotional toil that the pandemic has brought not only for students, but for educators themselves. The one thing I would say that gives me hope right now and that I would encourage other educators to think about is that oftentimes we actually get two opportunities out of crisis. And so I’m hopeful that as a nation, as a country, this pandemic has exposed to us

the lack of true value and support that we’ve given to teachers and to educators. And so rather than we continue to tinker around the edges with truly making teaching and a field and a career that people choose, that we actually look at what we need to do to really overhaul the teaching field and the teaching role to make it more attractive for current teachers and for future teachers. I mean, the truth of the matter is, as you know, if we don’t have teachers, we don’t have a workforce.

Therefore, we don’t have an economy as a country. This is everybody’s problem to solve. It’s not just on the backs of teachers and educators alone. That’s absolutely right. It is for everybody. We all need to jump in there and figure this all out together. So just a reminder that Takola will be at South by Southwest and present on March 8. Takola, what are you most looking forward to as South by Southwest? I am looking forward to being in the company of other educators, other

individuals who are really passionate about ensuring that we disrupt this cycle of poverty, that we continue to deliver students into. I’m looking forward to sharing my own thoughts about how we can do that. And I’m looking forward to learning from others about some of the ways that they’re looking at really pushing for innovation in ways that are going to be more disruptive versus tinkering and not really changing anything in this opportunity that we have.

Well, we really appreciate you joining us today and for just reminding us that your ZIP code does not define who you are or what you will be in life. Then if you just get in there and work hard that you will not only change your life but the trajectory of your family’s life. So thank you to Takola for this really, really important conversation. And if you want to learn more about Takola, please visit her organization, the TNTP, and also check her out South by Southwest

on March 8th. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for tuning in today. We hope you found this conversation inspiring, illuminating, and actionable. We love getting to talk with our wide range of guests about what makes us unique, alike, and connected. Know someone who will make a great guest on the podcast? Email mason at getysmart.com and don’t forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. It really helps to get more people around the table. Bon Appetit!