Thanasi Dilos on Civics, Superpowers and Co-Authorship

Key Points

  • It is important to build intergenerational spaces for young people and others to co-design.

  • The journey to purpose just happens. It might happen today, it might happen down the road.

On this episode of the Getting Smart Podcast Nate McClennen is joined by Thanasi Dilos, Co-Founder and Chief Growth Officer at Civics Unplugged. Thanasi has been an explorer with Nat Geo, a Venture Fellow and is also the Co-Founder and Founding Champion of DreamDAO – and he is 20 years old.

You can AI away from schools but you can’t take it away from their phones while they are scrolling on TikTok at 11 p.m.

Thanasi Dilos

Transcript

Nate McClennen
You’re listening to the Getting Smart podcast, and I’m Nate McClennen. At Getting Smart, we are thinking a lot about the superpowers young people need to develop to create a stable, vibrant, and sustainable future for everyone and the planet, especially in an increasingly complex and unpredictable world. Near the top of my list of superpowers is social entrepreneurship and civic engagement. Social entrepreneurs need tools to identify and solve problems with innovative solutions, and their skills will be critical in addressing both local and global challenges. Civic engagement also rises to the top. In democracies around the world, voice matters. While the percentage of eligible young people who vote has increased in the U.S., we still hover around 50%. Many students feel they cannot make a difference, that they lack agency, and, given the negative and divisive discourse often amplified in the media and politics, they need tools to communicate, empathize, compromise, and collaborate. They need tools to better understand civic systems and avenues for advocating for the change they seek. An educated and engaged population ensures a nation’s future, provided they have the tools and knowledge to engage. Finally, with AI emerging rapidly, social entrepreneurs operating in civic engagement will need experience and partnerships to navigate a future where fact and fiction are hard to separate, especially as AI drives content that can influence political and civic agendas.

Nate McClennen
Given all that, today, I’m thrilled to be joined by Thanasi Dilos. He’s the co-founder and Chief Growth Officer of Civics Unplugged. Thanasi has been an explorer with NatGeo, a venture fellow, and is also the co-founder and founding champion of DreamDAO, a Web3 opportunity. Among other things, he’s twenty years old. Welcome, Thanasi! It’s great to have you on the show, and I’m excited for our conversation.

Thanasi Dilos
Thank you for having me. I’m very excited to be here.

Nate McClennen
I always like to start with origin stories. You’ve done so much in your 20 years so far, but let’s begin with your journey. What was the inspiration to build what you have? Was there something in your younger life that led you to this? What’s the origin story of the world you’re in now?

Thanasi Dilos
The origin story of Civics Unplugged began when I was 17, during the summer between my junior and senior year of high school. However, the drive to start Civics Unplugged started way before then. I’ve told this story many times recently, but not publicly. I attended a traditional K-12 school for about a third of my life. I was severely bullied when I was younger, which led to significant mental health challenges and, eventually, a suicide attempt during my freshman year of high school. Throughout this time, I was excluded from many conversations in school, felt disconnected, had terrible grades, and retreated into a very dark place. After battling with suicide, I took time off from school and started writing about politics on the internet under a pseudonym. I don’t remember why or how it started, but I began publishing on Instagram. It was around 2016-2017 when Instagram algorithms pushed political content widely, and my following quickly grew to around 60,000 or 70,000. This gave me a sense of purpose. I started hiring other young people to write nonpartisan articles, which connected me with a community and gave me a reason to get up in the morning. I credit that experience with helping me graduate high school and getting me where I am today to speak about what we’ve built at Civics Unplugged.

But my journey to finding purpose and a reason to get up in the morning was truly just luck. I didn’t wake up one day deciding I needed a purpose; it just happened. Civics Unplugged is a civics organization, but if you peel back all its layers, it’s really about institutionalizing the luck that saved my life and providing that for thousands of young people across the country. It aims to give young people pathways to adult-youth partnerships, financial freedom, a life of purpose, genuine knowledge, and freedom from the anxiety of feeling they can’t make a difference in the future.

Nate McClennen
Wow, that’s quite a story. I’m grateful we’re able to have this conversation today, and I’m glad you emerged from that struggle. So, what was the first launch point? You started with an Instagram page, and at some point, it evolved into Civics Unplugged. What was the first program or initiative you launched?

Thanasi Dilos
The Instagram page was separate; I eventually sold it to a large Instagram conglomerate. Through that sale, I met Jeffrey Silverman, who is now the chair of my board. He was running a nonprofit based in New York City, which he was considering winding down. He was looking for what could come next, and I suggested, “What if we completely rethink what it means to be a civics organization?” We envisioned a model that didn’t depend on donors or cater to the conventional civic or educational establishment in the U.S. Instead, we’d create a new model tested through Instagram, with young people building it and adults supporting them in their vision. Jeffrey introduced me to one of my co-founders, Josh Thompson, who had a similar idea. Together, we saw that the problem with many youth-serving education organizations and nonprofits is that they operate in an outdated model where a teacher designs a curriculum presented to students, and students are told, “Voting is good,” “This is the country’s history,” and “This is how you get an internship and make change.”

We decided to turn that on its head by gathering 20-30 civically interested kids to co-create a civics nonprofit for their peers. Our first program was a digital-first Civic Innovation Fellowship set to start in January 2020. We secured a partnership with Georgetown University, which offered 250 beds for our fellows to come to Washington, D.C., for a week to experience the city, meet legislators, and visit iconic sites. However, because our program was digital-first, focused on technology and youth-led initiatives, we were laughed out of most rooms when pitching to education funders.

We bootstrapped it by running $250 in Instagram ads, which brought us our first 250 fellows. Then COVID hit, and our program was uniquely designed for 100% online interaction. It was a place where kids wanted to spend their time during the pandemic, not a program awkwardly adapted to online just to keep it running. Because of this, we built a community of 250 founding team members who co-created Civics Unplugged with us. That first fellowship cohort became the foundation of what Civics Unplugged is today.

Nate McClennen
That’s amazing. So, you built this essentially on another platform?

Thanasi Dilos
Yes, we built our own online school platform initially, where participants had a virtual space to interact. We don’t use it anymore—it turned out to be a bit of a bad idea—but it was fun while it lasted.

Nate McClennen
Got it. And for those 250 fellows who joined, did they bring their own challenges or issues to work on in the fellowship process?

Thanasi Dilos
Yes, the fellowship is based on four pillars: history, systems thinking, personal development, and emerging technology. We believe these four pillars form the foundation of civic innovation. Each week, fellows come together to learn from an adult and a young person who facilitate the session, covering different areas where civic innovation can make a difference—everything from housing and urban development to digital rights with AI. The curriculum, designed by our third co-founder, Nick Delis, who used to be a history teacher, is shaped each year by feedback from our alumni, now over 3,500 strong. We ask them what pressing issues are relevant for Gen Z, and we adapt the curriculum based on those responses.

Nate McClennen
So, the structure remains similar, but the topics evolve based on feedback. What are some of the specific fellowships you’ve run recently?

Thanasi Dilos
For example, last year, we ran the Civic Innovators Fellowship, our core program, and a Climate Technology Fellowship that focused on how young people can leverage technology to address climate change. This year, we’re running a Digital Bill of Rights Fellowship, where fellows examine the implications of social media, AI, and their impact on democracy and civic life.

Nate McClennen
Got it. So, during the fellowship, they work with a young person and an adult mentor, learning about relevant topics. Is there a culminating project or responsibility for them at the end?

Thanasi Dilos
Yes, during the program, fellows write a research paper where they examine an issue they’ve personally experienced and propose a potential civic innovation to address it. Many of our fellows go on to start organizations or projects to tackle these problems, and we provide funding to support them. We’ve moved over $500,000 in direct financial support to young people, covering everything from protest materials to helping them leave part-time jobs to focus on research that benefits their communities.

We initially thought all 350 fellows per cohort would want to start projects, but that hasn’t been the case. Many want to intern, continue researching, or even just focus on high school—and that’s perfectly fine. We aim to support alumni in ways that empower them holistically, knowing they still have the potential to be civic innovators down the line, even if they aren’t ready to act immediately.

Nate McClennen
That’s interesting because there’s a lot of pressure in schools, especially for high schoolers, to find their purpose, spot problems, and make change happen immediately. But you’re saying not everyone is ready to dive into action right away, and that’s okay.

Thanasi Dilos
Exactly. We don’t expect everyone to make immediate changes; some need time to explore and understand their purpose, and they may only become civic innovators 10 or 20 years down the line. We try to build our alumni support in a way that helps each individual at their own pace, knowing they can still make a significant impact in the future. We’re focused on empowering individuals holistically, allowing them to develop skills and connections over time, so when they’re ready, they’ll have everything they need.

Nate McClennen
You have a lot of fellows—over 3,000, I believe—who have gone through Civics Unplugged. Is there a story that stands out for you, one that you like to share?

Thanasi Dilos
Definitely. I’ll share two stories. One is about Marcus, one of our newer fellows, who is the youngest elected official in Arizona. He tells a compelling story about being elected to his school board and immediately facing political resistance from an older member who opposed recognizing Pride Month. Marcus learned quickly that age can be used against you, and he needed allies to navigate these dynamics. We hosted an event with Congressman Maxwell Frost, the youngest person in Congress, where Marcus asked, “As a fellow Gen Z elected official, how do I build intergenerational partnerships?” It was a powerful moment that highlighted the importance of adult allies for young leaders.

Another story is about Darriel, who was in our first fellowship cohort in 2020. He was an amazing kid from Orlando, very unique in his outlook, funny, and open. When he joined Civics Unplugged, he wasn’t very civically engaged, and he didn’t have connections in the political world. Through Civics Unplugged, he had his first opportunity to run a campaign, leading Students for Open Primaries in Florida, which eventually gained 59% of the vote to open primaries in the state. With encouragement from our community, he applied for a QuestBridge scholarship and got a full ride to the University of Chicago. His Civics Unplugged friends were also at UChicago, so he felt comfortable going there for the first time. Now he’s interning in D.C. and lobbying for science research funding. We don’t take credit for these kids’ successes; they’re incredible on their own. But we try to create an environment where they can find support and stay grounded in their values.

Nate McClennen
I love that idea of helping young people “stay good”—to develop purpose and maintain it over a lifetime despite the pressures they’ll face. There’s so much focus in education on moving young people from high school to college to the workforce. It’s essential, but your work is also providing young people with the skills to live meaningful lives. It’s about fostering agency and helping them do work that matters to them.

Thanasi Dilos
Exactly. It’s about helping them develop a foundation that they can draw from, not just immediately but years down the road, when they’re ready to engage deeply with their communities. We see this as part of a long-term journey.

Nate McClennen
You mentioned that many young people are already informed and engaged in issues they care about, but traditional civics education can sometimes be outdated or fail to meet their needs. If you could sit in front of each state’s Secretary of Education, what would you recommend?

Thanasi Dilos
If I could gather all the Secretaries of Education, I wouldn’t give them the ideas myself—I’d encourage them to listen to young people. The internet has fundamentally changed education. Today, the average 15-year-old is more informed than they were 10 or 20 years ago. They don’t just know about democracy at a surface level; they’re more plugged into issues that impact them. For many, civics class doesn’t engage them meaningfully. Instead of teaching the fundamentals of democracy over half a credit, we should focus on creating informed citizens who understand how they can make an impact in their communities right now—not just when they turn 18.

Young people want to learn how to identify and address issues in their communities, not just hear about what they’ll be able to do “someday.” We need to rethink civics to make it relevant for them today, so they feel empowered to act now.

Nate McClennen
If we want a thriving democracy 50 or 100 years from now, what generational work should we focus on, given what you’ve seen in Civics Unplugged?

Thanasi Dilos
That’s a great question. I think Civics Unplugged has proven we can find and support young people who want to become civic innovators. But we don’t want to just do the status quo; we want to push the boundaries of what civics education can look like. I want us to go back into the lab and launch something new, maybe a residency program for high school civic innovators or a traveling academy where students can learn about civic engagement hands-on in different cities.

How do we create a movement that goes beyond running a fellowship? Eventually, someone else might do that better or differently. We’re committed to evolving, trying new things, and hopefully inspiring others to take our successes and mistakes and apply them elsewhere.

Nate McClennen
I love that—taking a hyper-local approach, giving young people a hands-on experience in specific places. It sounds like you’re already experimenting with this, bringing fellows to D.C. and Austin. What’s that experience like?

Thanasi Dilos
Yes, we just returned from a week-long academy in D.C., where we took 75 fellows to interact with various government departments—Education, Transportation, Treasury, and State. They met with deputy directors, learned about pressing issues, and pitched tech-based solutions. For instance, one group pitched a way to revolutionize IRS pre-filing with AI, and another talked to officials about the Afghanistan pullout. It’s a hands-on learning experience. We’re also planning an academy in Austin, Texas, to explore issues like gentrification and housing. We’re bringing in students from the southern U.S. to learn from Austin’s shifts and apply that knowledge back in their own communities.

Nate McClennen
I used to run a school where we’d take students on week-long trips to learn about the economy, culture, and ecology of various places, helping them identify challenges and develop solutions. It’s encouraging to see that idea expanded on a larger scale.

Thanasi Dilos
Absolutely. Learning within a place, interacting with a community—it’s how young people learn best. If we could have more schools doing that, it would be incredibly impactful. But there’s a balance. Schools provide that constant connection with the community, while organizations like ours can offer broader experiences that go beyond the local environment.

Nate McClennen
So true. Schools can focus on the local mission, while programs like yours offer a bigger-picture perspective. Here’s a tough question: You’ve launched this work in an intensely divided time, with politics impacting education and school boards. How do you handle that partisanship, especially given the pressures on schools?

Thanasi Dilos
I’ll give you the simple answer and then a more nuanced one. First, we’re focused on developing young leaders who think about innovation outside the partisan system. We support them in tackling issues that have broad consensus, like social media reform, where people from all political backgrounds agree something needs to change. When it comes to divisive issues, we don’t take sides legally or organizationally. But we support young people in pursuing their goals through other organizations that align with their views.

The second part of the answer is that we’re in the middle of a cultural shift. There’s a lot of noise, but the signal-to-noise ratio is very low. This creates an opening for young people and adults to co-create new narratives and solutions. We’re trying to foster those innovative ideas that transcend partisanship, focusing on long-term impact rather than getting caught up in current divides.

Nate McClennen
I agree. It’s so easy for media to amplify a binary “yes or no” narrative, but most issues are more nuanced than that. I hope the leaders you’re cultivating will help shift that narrative and find ways to bring more thoughtful conversations into the public sphere.

Thanasi Dilos
Yes, one of our fellows asked Congressman Frost about holding “both truths” and understanding conflicting perspectives. That’s something we want to impress upon our fellows—not just through curriculum but through transparency about the challenges we face as a leadership team. Running Civics Unplugged itself is a lesson for them in navigating real-world issues and learning by doing.

If we can teach thousands of young people to hold multiple perspectives in mind and find common ground, that’s an impactful accomplishment. I wish more schools could teach that too, but we’re grateful to offer that learning experience to our fellows.

Nate McClennen
I totally agree. I use that idea as well—holding two truths as a kind of superpower. The ability to have a conversation with someone you might fundamentally disagree with, but still try to understand where they’re coming from, is so valuable. It’s not always possible, of course, but for many issues, it’s a more productive approach. I hope your fellows take this skill forward and influence the world positively with it.

Thanasi Dilos
Exactly. It’s something we emphasize. I was inspired recently by listening to Congressman Frost talk to our fellows. He emphasized the importance of “holding both truths” and understanding multiple perspectives. It’s rare to hear leaders talk that way, given how polarized things are. We’re trying to instill that in our fellows, not just through direct teaching, but by sharing our own challenges and thought processes openly with them. They see how we make decisions, work through issues, and even when things get tough, we’re transparent about it. Running Civics Unplugged itself becomes a lesson for them.

If we can teach thousands of young people to embrace this idea of holding multiple perspectives, finding balance, and working across divides, that’s a real accomplishment. I wish more schools could do that too, but we’re glad we can provide it for our community.

Nate McClennen
That’s such important work. And speaking of skills, there are two big technological shifts happening that I’d love to hear your take on: AI and the future of the web, including blockchain and decentralized learning. You’ve co-founded DreamDAO, a Web3-based organization. Why did you launch it, and is it working? And what’s your perspective on how AI might influence this whole civic engagement and education space?

Thanasi Dilos
DreamDAO was an experiment that came from our 2021 cohort. They actually proposed it three times before it passed a vote! Our fellows vote democratically on launching new programs, so it wasn’t approved until some concerns were addressed, especially around cryptocurrency. Once the fellows advocating for DreamDAO separated cryptocurrency from Web3 and started talking about Web3 as a way to bring democracy and ownership online, the concept began to resonate with others. Gen Z grew up in self-organized, decentralized online communities, so the idea of decentralized tech came naturally to them.

We co-created DreamDAO with our fellows and launched it as the first philanthropically-led, youth-led DAO (Decentralized Autonomous Organization) in the space. We raised $300,000 through the sale of NFTs, and we use that to support young people using decentralized technology to strengthen democracy across the country. It has helped fund young coders working on civic tech, and it allows our fellows to experiment with building their own governance system. They quickly realized that having 10 subcommittees created too much bureaucracy, while a free-for-all was chaos. They learned valuable lessons about governance and democracy by doing it themselves. We’re now about to launch our fifth season and revamp how we grant funds to young innovators.

Nate McClennen
That’s incredible. You were already operating in a decentralized way, so the DAO wasn’t a huge leap for you all. And you’re right—young people are already engaging in these decentralized, non-hierarchical systems, even without blockchain. It’s a powerful concept.

Thanasi Dilos
Exactly. Civics Unplugged was already running in a DAO-like structure before we officially launched DreamDAO. We just formalized it on the blockchain, but the principles were the same. Creating a sandbox for young people to experiment within boundaries is powerful. It’s a completely different kind of education in democracy, civics, leadership, and so many other skills.

As for AI, it’s both exciting and concerning. I’m part of Design It For Us, a coalition of youth-led organizations advocating for a better internet. We’re supporting bills like the Kids Online Safety Act to protect young people from harmful algorithms and bills that encourage responsible AI innovation. One of our team members, Sneha Revanur, is a high school student branded as the “Greta Thunberg of AI.” She’s incredibly knowledgeable and passionate about AI and technology’s role in education.

AI offers amazing opportunities to personalize learning, providing individualized curriculum and hands-on support. It also allows for a new kind of creativity—students who may not be artists, writers, or photographers can now bring their ideas to life through AI. But on the flip side, AI also supercharges the potential for misinformation. I ran a social media page at 17, and I saw firsthand how people coordinated to spread harmful messages and influence young people down dangerous paths. The idea of AI multiplying that effect is terrifying.

That’s why I believe banning AI in schools only leaves young people more vulnerable. They need to understand and engage with it to be prepared for the threats it brings. Schools can’t prevent students from encountering AI outside of class, so the best approach is to educate them on its pros and cons.

Nate McClennen
I agree completely. AI can personalize learning in ways we couldn’t imagine, but it also poses a massive risk in terms of misinformation. It’s about teaching young people to discern truth from fiction—a skill that’s going to become even more essential. Thank you for those insights, Thanasi. This has been such an enlightening conversation.

Let’s wrap up with two questions. First, what’s your takeaway message for our listeners? And second, is there any organization or person you’d like to amplify, someone who deserves recognition?

Thanasi Dilos
For sure. My takeaway is that Civics Unplugged wasn’t built by me or our four-person team—it was built by 3,500 young people from all 50 states and 74 countries. If we can co-create something impactful in just three years, imagine what you could do by collaborating with young people. The magic is in creating intergenerational spaces for co-creation. You don’t need to hand over all the power; it’s about working alongside them and building together. That’s the magic sauce.

For amplification, I’d say the entire team at Design It For Us. They’re thinking deeply about how technology, culture, and education intersect, and they deserve recognition for their contributions. Also, I’d like to shout out all the grantees of the Vela Education Fund. They’re funding some of the most innovative, experimental education projects out there, and if you’re looking for inspiration, their grantee list is a great place to start.

Nate McClennen
Thank you, Thanasi. Here are some takeaways from this conversation. First, the journey to purpose doesn’t always need to be planned; sometimes it just happens. But we need to equip young people with the tools to recognize and embrace it when it does. Second, you mentioned “co-creation” many times, and I think that intergenerational collaboration is crucial for the future of education and society. Third, I love that you’re helping people “stay good” by staying true to their values amidst external pressures. And finally, practicing civic engagement locally can help young people find agency in their own communities.

Thanasi Dilos, this has been an awesome conversation. We’ll include links in the show notes for listeners to learn more about Civics Unplugged and Design It For Us. Thank you for joining us and for all the impactful work you and your team are doing.

Thanasi Dilos
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a pleasure.

Links:

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